Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

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_richardMdBorn
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Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _richardMdBorn »

Kevin asserted
Attacking Obama's intelligence is a no win for you guys
I'd like to see his support for his (implicit) assertion that Obama is highly intelligent. Some items he can use to support this assertion are:

Test scores he used to apply for college.
His records at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law.
The test scores he used to apply to Harvard Law.
_Analytics
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _Analytics »

richardMdBorn wrote:Kevin asserted
Attacking Obama's intelligence is a no win for you guys
I'd like to see his support for his (implicit) assertion that Obama is highly intelligent. Some items he can use to support this assertion are:

Test scores he used to apply for college.
His records at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard Law.
The test scores he used to apply to Harvard Law.

Richard,

Is the following what you suspect happened? The admissions department at Harvard Law looked at his transcripts and LSAT scores and said, "Eww. Based upon his transcripts and test scores, this guy isn't highly intelligent. But because of [insert conspiracy theory here], let's accept him anyway."
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _Kevin Graham »

So Richard argues profusely that Obama is not intelligent based on test scores he's never seen. But, he insists Obama must not be intelligent despite his academic credentials at elite institutions of higher learning. Because we all know Harvard habitually accepts complete morons and then puts them in high positions. Oh wait, they must have let him in and moved him up the academic ladder quickly because.... he's black?

Yes, I'm sure that happens all the time. I'm sure that's much more plausible than the far more simplistic explanation that Obama's accomplishments are based on his own intelligence.

Besides, Obama just comes off as intelligent in the way he speaks in interviews. You can tell a lot about a person's intelligence in interacting with them. Richard refuses to acknowledge it because he's blinded by his extreme ideological differences.
_aussieguy55
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _aussieguy55 »

What do we know about George W Bush's results? From the way he spoke english composition did not seem he best area of expertise? He says he read Metaxas bio of Bonhoeffer. There is a great one by his friend Bethge which I think Bush would find a hard slog. Metaxas' bio has come in for some legitimate criticisms from Bonhoeffer scholars.
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_EAllusion
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _EAllusion »

Obama plays as great of a role in writing his own speeches as any president since at least JFK. And they are solidly written speeches. His 2004 convention speech is a modern classic in political speech-writing, and he wrote that. That's a pretty good sign of the man being at least of solidly above average intelligence. It also sort of makes the bizarre criticism of Obama as a man who only is good at reading off of a teleprompter one of the least inapt criticisms possible, but it's like the free republic types are allergic to reality.
_EAllusion
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _EAllusion »

Bush's speaking style as president was a faux-folksy schtick he did as a political strategy. He comes across as a ivy league frat boy type with a mild Texan accent - which he actually is - in footage of him prior to developing that schtick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvknGT8W5jA

I wouldn't hold it against his intelligence so much. He's a mediocre speaker who found a way to turn that weakness into political strength. George H. W. Bush came across as quite learned when speaking, but also as a northeastern elite. He wasn't as affected as a William F. Buckley's sounding like Thurston Howell III, but it's there. He is a well-educated, northeastern elite, so that's not surprising. It's just who he is. That, somehow, was perceived as hurting him, especially compared against Clinton's folksiness. I'm sure Bush II's team was painfully aware of that as Bush developed what became the speaking style we now all associate with him. By the end, it was like he was an SNL parody of himself.
_palerobber
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _palerobber »

EAllusion wrote:Obama plays as great of a role in writing his own speeches as any president since at least JFK. And they are solidly written speeches. His 2004 convention speech is a modern classic in political speech-writing, and he wrote that. That's a pretty good sign of the man being at least of solidly above average intelligence. It also sort of makes the bizarre criticism of Obama as a man who only is good at reading off of a teleprompter one of the least inapt criticisms possible, but it's like the free republic types are allergic to reality.


in my opinion, Obama's prepared speeches are beside the point. his intelligence (at least relative to recent GOP candidates) is obvious just from listening to him in a live debate, press conference Q&A, or one-on-one interview.

i can only imagine that the teleprompter talking point stems from a deep personal insecurity among far right anti-intellectuals, since the criticism has no purchase outside their sad little circle jerk. but i hope they continue to push it during the campaign, because it just makes them look all the more clueless to regular voters.
_EAllusion
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _EAllusion »

For those that follow politics, it's openly known that speechwriters do the bulk of the work when it comes to crafting what high level politicians end up saying. Almost everything Mitt Romney is saying in speeches right now, for instance, has been written for him by other people in his voice with his approval. It's been that way for a long time now. Bill Clinton was considered an outlier at the time because he would take speeches written for him and add in his own flourishes, rewrite passages, and improvise lines on the fly far more frequently than is typical. Slicky Willy is a gifted speaker, after all. Obama is quite beyond that, though, in that he actually hands-on writes a lot of what he says himself. It's a unique way to point to a sign of his intelligence. Those who need to cast Obama as a dunce are weird and it takes on racist overtones since it so inapt. There are plenty of things Obama can be criticized for. Why on earth that?
_richardMdBorn
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _richardMdBorn »

Kevin Graham wrote:So Richard argues profusely that Obama is not intelligent based on test scores he's never seen. But, he insists Obama must not be intelligent despite his academic credentials at elite institutions of higher learning. Because we all know Harvard habitually accepts complete morons and then puts them in high positions. Oh wait, they must have let him in and moved him up the academic ladder quickly because.... he's black?
Well, let's see his academic credentials. Obama could release them. Why hasn't he?

Yes, I'm sure that happens all the time. I'm sure that's much more plausible than the far more simplistic explanation that Obama's accomplishments are based on his own intelligence.

Besides, Obama just comes off as intelligent in the way he speaks in interviews. You can tell a lot about a person's intelligence in interacting with them. Richard refuses to acknowledge it because he's blinded by his extreme ideological differences.
Off teleprompter, Obama does very poorly. He thinks Austrian is a language, corpsman is pronounced as corpseman, etc. He has at best superficial knowledge and doesn't realize it. Some examples are http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/ ... obama.html

He asserted that the march on Selma played a riole in bringing his parents together. I'm no expert on the Civil Rights Movement but I've met a man who participated in it and know that it occurred in 1965. Obama was born in 1961. He was either lying for political advantage or he hadn't checked this simple fact that 1960 (his conception) < 1965 So often, I'm left with the alternatives that Obama is either ignorant or lying.

Let's accept that Obama plays a major role in writing his speeches. Then the situation is even worse. As Victor Davis Hanson wrote about his Cairo speech:
Our Historically Challenged President
by Victor Davis Hanson
Tribune Media Services

In his speech last week in Cairo, President Obama proclaimed he was a "student of history." But despite Barack Obama's image as an Ivy-League-educated intellectual, he lacks historical competency, both in areas of facts and interpretation.

This first became apparent during the presidential campaign. Candidate Obama proclaimed then that during World War II his great-uncle had helped liberate Auschwitz, and that his grandfather knew fellow American troops that had entered Auschwitz and Treblinka.

Both are impossible. The Americans didn't free either Nazi death camp. (Regarding Obama's great uncle's war experience, the Obama team later said he'd meant the camp at Buchenwald.)

Much of what Obama said to thousands of Germans during his Victory Column speech in Berlin last summer was also ahistorical. He began, "I know that I don't look like the Americans who've previously spoken in this great city." He apparently forgot that for the prior eight years, the official faces of American foreign policy in Germany were Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice — both African-Americans.

In the same speech, Obama seemed to suggest that the world had come together to save Berlin during the Airlift. In fact, it was almost an entirely American and British effort — written off by most observers as hopeless and joined only by a handful of Western allies when the improbable lift looked like it might succeed.

In the recent Cairo speech, Obama's historical allusions were even more suspect. Almost every one of his references was either misleading or incomplete. He suggested that today's Middle East tension was fed by the legacy of European colonialism and the Cold War that had reduced nations to proxies.

But the great colonizers of the Middle East were the Ottoman Muslims, who for centuries ruled with an iron fist. The 20th-century movements of Baathism, Pan-Arabism and Nasserism — largely homegrown totalitarian ideologies — did far more damage over the last half-century to the Middle East than the legacy of European colonialism.

Obama also claimed that "Islam . . . carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment." While medieval Islamic culture was impressive and ensured the survival of a few classical texts — often through the agency of Arabic-speaking Christians — it had little to do with the European rediscovery of classical Greek and Latin values. Europeans, Chinese and Hindus, not Muslims, invented most of the breakthroughs Obama credited to Islamic innovation.

Much of the Renaissance, in fact, was more predicated on the centuries-long flight of Greek-speaking Byzantine scholars from Constantinople to Western Europe to escape the aggression of Islamic Turks. Many romantic thinkers of the Enlightenment sought to extend freedom to oppressed subjects of Muslim fundamentalist rule in eastern and southern Europe.

Obama also insisted that "Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance. We see it in the history of Andalusia and Cordoba during the Inquisition." Yet the Spanish Inquisition began in 1478; by then Cordoba had long been re-conquered by Spanish Christians, and was governed as a staunchly Christian city.

In reference to Iraq, President Obama promised that "no system of government can or should be imposed upon one nation by any other." Is he unaware of how the United States imposed democracies after World War II?

After the defeat of German Nazism, Italian fascism and Japanese militarism, Americans — by force — insisted that these nations adopt democratic governments, for their own sakes and the world's. Indeed, it is hard to think of too many democratic governments that did not emerge from violence — including our own.

Obama also stated: "For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights."

With all due respect to our president, this assertion is again not fully accurate. The only thing that ended slavery in the United States was the Civil War, which saw some 600,000 Americans — the vast majority of them white — lost in a violent struggle to ensure that nearly half the country would not remain a slave-owning society. Also, the massive urban riots of the 1960s and 1970s were certainly violent.

This list of distortions could be easily expanded. President Obama, in elegant fashion, may casually invoke the means of politically correct history for the higher ends of contemporary reconciliation. But it is a bad habit. Eloquence and good intentions exempt no one from the truth of the past — President Obama included.
http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson061509B.html
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Question for Kevin Graham about Obama

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Well, let's see his academic credentials. Obama could release them. Why hasn't he?


So releasing tax returns, which is standard protocol for Presidential candidates, shouldn't be expected of Romney because?

However, releasing "academic credentials," which isn't expected nor is it typical of politicians, must be produced by Obama simply because a tiny minority of paranoid daily caller readers, would feel much better about having them.

Do I have that right Richard?

Your complaints are petty and downright stupid. I already covered much of this in the past, as "Austrian" is a common description of the language spoken in that country. At least this Austrian websiterefers to its own language as "Austrian." It seems Austrians like to distinguish their language from traditional German, and they do so probably in the same way we refer to "British" to distinguish from American English, even though it isn't technically a language either.

Trying to use this to smack Obama is just pathetic. And I'd bet you never bothered to read his speech in Cairo, but instead just took for granted some lame synopsis by Hansen.
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