If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now?
If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now?
Let's imagine that the first presidency today started to practice polygamy secretly the way that it was done in Nauvoo. Imagine that you are in the inside circle. You're one of the few that know it's happening. Imagine that the first presidency and apostles were approaching women in private and proposing to them and charging them to keep it secret. Using language such as, 'I have been commanded of God to take another wife, and you are the woman.' In some proposals they promise eternal salvation for them and their families. Let's imagine that you knew some of them were doing it without the knowledge or consent of their wives.
Would you keep it a secret? Would you help to hide it from the lay membership and the world at large? If one is willing to rationalize what happened in Nauvoo. If one believes that it was moral and acceptable then why not today? Why not now? What's the difference? If you think it moral, what would keep you from doing the very same thing?
Would you keep it a secret? Would you help to hide it from the lay membership and the world at large? If one is willing to rationalize what happened in Nauvoo. If one believes that it was moral and acceptable then why not today? Why not now? What's the difference? If you think it moral, what would keep you from doing the very same thing?
Last edited by _Stormy Waters on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
Great Question, Mr. Waters.
Great question, indeed.
Can't wait to see the responses from the faithful.
Great question, indeed.
Can't wait to see the responses from the faithful.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
To know the history of the church and still believe it is led by men who speak with God, you have to be able to hope for the good intentions of scoundrels. So I have no doubt that many Mormons would rationalize secret polygamy and other dark deeds exactly the way you describe it.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
I enjoyed Kish's response on another thread dealing with this issue:
Kish went on to say that Mrs. Kishkumen is not to be trifled with. I would say that Mrs. Kishkumen and I have a lot in common.
Kishkumen wrote:Darth J wrote:By the way, Reverend, how many 14 year-old girls have you gotten to marry you behind your lawful, adult wife's back by telling them that their family would go to heaven if they did it?
My count is at zero. How about you?
Let me count my testicles and I'll get back to you.
ETA: Both present!
I guess that makes the answer "zero."
Kish went on to say that Mrs. Kishkumen is not to be trifled with. I would say that Mrs. Kishkumen and I have a lot in common.

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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
The Dude wrote:To know the history of the church and still believe it is led by men who speak with God, you have to be able to hope for the good intentions of scoundrels.
Precisely, sir. Rem acu tetigisti.
Lapidary ... and true.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
Every TBM I know would have no problem with it. They do whatever the prophets and apostles say. If the prophets and apostles say they are going to secretly marry multiple women, why would a TBM question that? The way TBMs on this board defend Joseph Smith's behavior, they would gladly hand over their wife to Thomas Monson if asked.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
How do you know they are not still practicing it, perhaps at the very highest levels on a very limited basis? How many members know about the 2nd endowment?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
Fence Sitter wrote:How do you know they are not still practicing it, perhaps at the very highest levels on a very limited basis? How many members know about the 2nd endowment?
Well Oaks is practicing it, albeit one bride is deceased.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
Fence Sitter wrote:How do you know they are not still practicing it, perhaps at the very highest levels on a very limited basis? How many members know about the 2nd endowment?
Maybe they do in some limited form. Although I have my doubts because polygamy seems a hard secret to keep as demonstrated by Nauvoo and post manifesto polygamy. But the point is that if Nauvoo style polygamy is okay than there is no moral objection to Monson and company doing it now.
So another question that could be asked is if you are okay with the information being withheld from lay members then, would you be okay with similar information being withheld from you now?
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Re: If you can rationalize secret polygamy then, why not now
Stormy Waters wrote:So another question that could be asked is if you are okay with the information being withheld from lay members then, would you be okay with similar information being withheld from you now?
Absolutely not.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator