Too Many Credible Witnesses, Says Daniel Peterson

[_Sophocles]

"...When sixty witnesses testify to the same type of torture and murder, it becomes impossible for me, personally, not to believe them."

—Glen L. Pace, in his 1990 memorandum on the Satanic Ritual Abuse panic of the 1980s.

According to wikipedia, "the state of Utah conducted a 30-month investigation of the claims after the Pace memorandum was leaked to the press in 1991, concluding that there was no evidence found to substantiate the testimony of the alleged victims."

It looks to me like even general authorities risk getting swept up in the hysteria of the day when they buy into faulty reasoning, such as that a bunch of flawed testimonies somehow add up to credible testimonies in the aggregate.

[_Sophocles]

So in an article arguing that so many people would have to lie for Joseph Smith to have lied (or something; the logic is, shall we say, imprecise), Peterson himself generates a new lie--that 120 witnesses testified about a so-called "transformation before their eyes." The first mention of any sort of "transformation" of BY into Joseph Smith came 13 years after the incident allegedly occurred. There are no "120 witnesses" to the event. The fact that no one mentioned this myth for more than a decade after the event is strong and compelling evidence that nothing of the kind occurred.

Why does DCP deceive in this way? Why does he continue to perpetuate a lie, to lead the Saints into continuing to believe in this story of highly dubious historical provenance? He must be familiar with the Van Wagoner article linked above. He must know there are not 120 witnesses testifying about it. He must know he is peddling a falsehood. And how ironic that he is doing it in an article where he is trying to defend Mormon honesty.

Even the Mormon Snopes (HolyFetch.com) debunks this claim.

[Guest]

Almost, I am tempted to create a DesNews account just so I can comment and respond to this tripe.


Almost.

But not quite.

Hellooo
Salt Lake City, UT
Re: JoeBlow Please provide an example of the other faiths you mention that suggests its establishment was based on direct revelation from God, which revelations are confirmed and attested to by two or more witnesses participating in the revelation. Certainly, this is not the case with the majority of Christian faiths (Catholic and Protestant),which I am familiar with. It is not even claimed. And, it is not the case with Islam, nor is it claimed. I do appreciate your other points, but Mormon's establishment and claims are quite unique in this area of confirming witnesses to events.

So we use a yardstick mostly invented by Mormons, to push the veracity of Mormonism, to verify the veracity of others' claims?

I would ask that person to give me an example of another financial investment that has the blessings of Jesus, who visited me and told me about it, and there are 2 witnesses (who happen to by my business assoicates) who can testify that Jesus really did come and promise them that this financial investment was true. Why would you NOT invest? You see how easy that is?

[_Drifting]

In 1890 the entire Church testified that Polygamy was over, and we know how accurate that was...

[_zeezrom]

I was reading a myth book with my 1st grader last night. It contains articles describing various UFO sightings, alien abductions, monster sightings, and even the famous mothman.

Most of the articles include the number of witnesses attesting to the event(s) described. Some of these (like the mothman) had 4 witnesses. 4! That is a really big deal!

And, And!

I remember the mothman article mentioned how the witnesses were known throughout the town to be upstanding citizens that were all highly regarded.

The Mothman!

[_3sheets2thewind]

How many witnesses would say "blood letting" cured an aliment?

I see that is up to his arm of flesh arguments again rather than encourage people to rely on the spirit.

[_SteelHead]

christoph
Brigham City, UT
Go and try to write your own D&C, your own revelations, you will stumble upon the first word; yes we can all write in journals; yet to say you are God's mouthpiece?? Why hasn't anyone else claimed that in the last 200 years, and then raised the money to publish it to all the earth? And then asked one million missionaries to go publish it around the globe over the next 200 years? Not very many people claim to see God and then back it up with a new book, several new books, tangible, ink on paper, turn the pages yourself, type of books.
Until something else better comes along, I'll stick to faith and belief.

Can anyone say Warren Jeffs boys and girls?

Do these people even think before they spout?

[_DarkHelmet]

christoph
Brigham City, UT
Go and try to write your own D&C, your own revelations, you will stumble upon the first word; yes we can all write in journals; yet to say you are God's mouthpiece?? Why hasn't anyone else claimed that in the last 200 years, and then raised the money to publish it to all the earth? And then asked one million missionaries to go publish it around the globe over the next 200 years? Not very many people claim to see God and then back it up with a new book, several new books, tangible, ink on paper, turn the pages yourself, type of books.
Until something else better comes along, I'll stick to faith and belief.

Can anyone say Warren Jeffs boys and girls?

Do these people even think before they spout?

They spout this stuff because they are completely naïve about the different religious movements. Most people only care about their religion, and Mormons are no different. They are just more vocal in their confidence that their religion is unique and special.

[_Drifting]

I think Danny One Office knows his articles are tissue paper umbrella's in a deluge. But this stuff isn't for the thinking man (and woman Just Me), it's for shoring up the wavering testimonies of the sheltered pew dwellers.

"Oh, I'm having some doubts about the Church, ahhh, Daniel says there's too many credible witnesses, phew the doubts have gone. At least for this week."

[_LDS truthseeker]

DCP says they must be liars or mad - no other options. How about they were gullible fools that believed in second sight, dreams, divining rods, etc. just like the rest of the gullible population in the early 1800s. And Cowdery was maybe in on it and helped convince the others.