Your tax dollars at work

[_Kevin Graham]

Obviously, if they were innocent, we wouldn't have killed them.

Did you get that folks?

Cinepro just proved my point. In the Right Winger's mind, America is essentially God's hand. Our military forces can do no wrong. If we kill people, then it is because they deserved it.

Polemics?

I'm just stating an obvious fact, and one every Right Winger in this thread pretty much proved by their responses. Sure, you say you hate the slaughter of innocents on principle, but what you obviously hate more is that your tax dollars would go to subsidize businesses, and even worse, hungry mouths of innocent American children who are raised in poverty. Or that our tax dollars would go to finance the health care of said children. I mean this is what comes to your mind when you want to complain about reckless government spending, right? The war is never even in the conversation until some evil Liberal brings it up.

I mean, really, how come I never see "Conservatives" complain about the hundreds of billions of our tax dollars being used on a war that was based on a lie? A war which has caused the horrible deaths of tens of thousands of innocent women and children?

If you were halfway serious in your verbal protest against such things, I doubt you'd be promoting a guy who is already bringing in the war rhetoric with Iran. The last thing we need is a religious nut as President, trying to pick a fight with Iran.

But it seems some people never learn, no matter how recent the lessons of history may be.

[_Jason Bourne]

Kevin

I am not a right winger. I am right of center. Even if I were left your posts here, as well as many other political postings you have made of late are polemical in nature. Some like this thread are over the top.

Not FYI my friend, I opposed the Iraq war from start to end. On principle I oppose preemptive wars unless we are certain beyond doubt that the tragedy from such an attack is necessary to prevent greater evil.I

And keep in mind that war impacted me very personally as well since I have a son who enlisted in the Marines at the height of the conflict and served two tours there. I cannot tell you how painful and tearful the times we sent him off on those tours were, wondering if we would see him again as well as what it might do to him to kill those he was fighting or even kill innocents.

My son is still a Marine. And I greatly fear for him being put in harms way again.

I know all this on a personal level. Do you?

And you know damn well that I am on the record here supporting defense cuts.

So basically, your posts above, at least in reference to me, well you are simply full of crap. I think that applies to Bob as well. The others can speak for themselves.

[_Kevin Graham]

I didn't mention names Jason, and I never considered you a Right Winger. Didn't you say you voted for Obama?

The fact is government spending has become a favorite talking point by Right Wingers these past few years. Mostly because it was pounded into their psyche by Right Wing media that Obama was going to be a Big Government Socialist who was going to bankrupt the country. So the preemptive strike against government spending ensued.

But also because attacking social programs seems to be a fundamental Right Wing principle. It all plays into their self-righteous concept of being the party of self-responsibility. Preaching to us all about how we shouldn't be relying on others, or expecting others to pay for our lifestyle, etc. You know the typical BS based in their broad judgment of everyone not as fortunate as they. You catch glimpses of this mindset anytime a Right Winger is allowed to speak freely, such as the Romney rant about the 47%.

But the point is the hypocrisy. Despite their so-called concerns about "where our tax dollars go," they never once bring up the fact that we're killing innocents abroad. They'd rather whine about a few million being lost on a well-intended attempt to boost the economy. "Defense spending" represents a huge chunk of government spending but they always want to increase it without further discussion. Romney presents this as a no-brainer that we need to keep dumping money into "Defense", as if our level of safety is somehow measured by how much money we hand over to the Pentagon. And I thought this guy was supposed to be some brilliant businessman. We are the safest country on the planet, separated by large oceans, from the only countries that could ever think of doing us harm; countries that do not have the navy or air force required to conduct such a war. So producing more Aircraft carriers and F-22's as if we need to be prepared for some invasion, is just a waste of tax dollars that no fiscal conservative seems to be concerned about.

They love to talk about terrorism but never about American terrorism. They love to rationalize the tax funded military as "defense" spending, but since when has any of this money really gone towards "defending" us against any real threats? The Vietnam war was a cluster “F” that never should have happened, yet we justified it as "defense." Defense from whom? Were we under attack? No. Likewise, we attacked Iraq after the Bush Administration managed to successfully deceive us into thinking we were in immediate danger of Iraq's WMD program. We then spent tens of billions each month financing a meaningless war, and we have the blood of more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis. One month of war spending would have easily financed the food stamps program for an entire year.

Cinepro made it clear he believes these people were not innocent. Based on what evidence? He doesn't say. But it clearly makes him feel better to think along those lines.

[_Ceeboo]

Sure, you say you hate the slaughter of innocents on principle, but what you obviously hate more is that your tax dollars would go to subsidize businesses, and even worse, hungry mouths of innocent American children who are raised in poverty. Or that our tax dollars would go to finance the health care of said children. I mean this is what comes to your mind when you want to complain about reckless government spending, right?

Preposterous!
Shocking!
Absurd!
Offensive!

I mean, really, how come I never see

Bingo!


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Kevin Graham]

Ceeboo, feel free to post links to the numerous Right Wing pundits who complain about government spending, and how that problem could be solved by focusing on military spending.

I won't hold my breath.

[_Jason Bourne]

I didn't mention names Jason, and I never considered you a Right Winger. Didn't you say you voted for Obama?

Yes I did in 2008. Currently there is nobody running that reflects what I would like to see done.

Cinepro made it clear he believes these people were not innocent. Based on what evidence? He doesn't say. But it clearly makes him feel better to think along those lines.

I was surprised by his comment and would like him to clarify what he meant.

[_Bob Loblaw]

I'm pretty sure cinepro was being sarcastic.

[_EAllusion]

Cinepro was being sarcastic, but the Obama administration, for the first time ever, instituted a policy of retroactively declaring all males of military age killed in our drone strikes to be militants regardless of whether they are combatants. Unless there is substantial evidence of innocence after the fact, they're enemies. It distorts the collateral damage (i.e. accidental killing of innocents) data in an unconscionably immoral way. You'll notice many media sources faithfully report X dead militants stories without bothering to care if they were innocent or not. If we kill you, you were not innocent by definition.

If George W. Bush were doing this, the left would be tearing their hair out in outrage. As it stands, the domestic opposition is at whimper levels.

Four more years! Four more years!

I'm sure Kevin's concerns over bombing innocents doesn't quite extend to not supporting a guy doing this.

[_beastie]

Cinepro was being sarcastic, but the Obama administration, for the first time ever, instituted a policy of retroactively declaring all males of military age killed in our drone strikes to be militants regardless of whether they are combatants. Unless there is substantial evidence of innocence after the fact, they're enemies. It distorts the collateral damage (i.e. accidental killing of innocents) data in an unconscionably immoral way. You'll notice many media sources faithfully report X dead militants stories without bothering to care if they were innocent or not. If we kill you, you were not innocent by definition.

If George W. Bush were doing this, the left would be tearing their hair out in outrage. As it stands, the domestic opposition is at whimper levels.

Four more years! Four more years!

I'm sure Kevin's concerns over bombing innocents doesn't quite extend to not supporting a guy doing this.

The left does criticize Obama for this policy. Rachel Maddow, in particular, mentions it often on her show.

[_EAllusion]

The left does criticize Obama for this policy. Rachel Maddow, in particular, mentions it often on her show.

The criticism is highly muted. Maddow's criticism comes while also acting as a defacto media surrogate for the Obama campaign, but more than that, there is nothing near the consistent drum beat in the media criticizing Obama these kind of policies in the way there was for Bush. The reason for that is fairly simple. The non-libertarian right doesn't disagree and the Democratic partisans are shy about criticizing their own and have largely shifted their views to match what Obama is doing. Since they make up the bulk of surrogate representation in the mainstream press, the response is very different than it was when Bush was in office. And Obama has been Bush on steroids when it comes to war on terror / civil rights abuse issues.



Feel free to point out the hundreds of thousands of protestors descending on Washington for this in any way comparable to what George W. Bush faced. I remember near daily calls for Bush to be impeached for precisely this kind of thing emanating from the left. There was a substantial number of progressives hoping and agitating for impeachment of Bush when the Democrats took congress in 2006. There's nothing remotely comparable to that going on for Obama from the same left. Heck, I live in Madison, WI and still see impeach Bush bumper stickers all over the place. There's nothing like that for Obama. In fact, suggesting Obama should be impeached (for example, for assassinating US citizens at will) will likely get you painted as a birther-esque crazy by those same people.