A "Firing Offense" for Obama

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_krose
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _krose »

beastie wrote:by the way, Bill Maher regularly criticizes Obama on this issue. Quite vehemently, in fact.

As he should. And I agree, but like Bill, I'm not willing to sacrifice more important progress to send a message. It's not worth putting health care and the supreme court in jeopardy.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _Kevin Graham »

It should probably go without saying that the "legalize drugs" crowd is going to come closer to getting what they want with a Democrat in office, than they ever would with a Republican. I suspect we're in for some serious things if Obama is elected for a second term. Second term presidents have nothing to lose, so they can go after what they want full steam ahead.
_MeDotOrg
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _MeDotOrg »

When it comes to legalizing drugs, I think there are 4 general positions:

  1. The moralists: Drugs are wrong. They destroy lives. We must therefore keep them as far away as possible. Drug addicts are infected, they need to be isolated from the general population. Tough penalties, interdiction.
  2. The libertarians: It's not the governments business. If people want to destroy themselves, that's their right.
  3. The pragmatists: Fighting the war on drugs is fighting a war against human nature. Some people are going to be addicted to drugs, no matter what the penalties. It's a cost/benefit evaluation: Look at the cost: in law enforcement, in crime, in incarceration. The more we fight, the more we fuel drug lords and the drug trade. The only way to win the war is not to fight.
  4. The drug addicts: Huh? :wink:

I'd be a liar if I didn't say I've held all those positions at one time or another.

Drug policy makes strange bedfellows: George Schultz and Susan Sarandon both believe in decriminalization.

I would support decriminalization of Marijuana. I think marijuana is a 'gateway' drug because it is illegal. If alcohol were illegal it would be a gateway drug. Methadone seems to be better than heroin, although not much. Meth is a death march. Read Methland.

But voting for Romney because you support decriminalization? What ARE you smoking, Mr. Larsen?

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_beastie
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _beastie »

MeDotOrg wrote:
I'd be a liar if I didn't say I've held all those positions at one time or another.


Including: "huh?"

;)
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_MCB
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _MCB »

#3. The best way of reducing the negative effects of marijuana use is legalization. It would reduce the chance of young users coming into contact with users of harder drugs. It would regulate the purity and THC content. My experience years ago was absolutely mild compared to what I have experienced with my son in recent years, including secondary mind-f***. How many people were injured or died from tainted alcoholic beverages during Prohibition?

The California problem is a states' rights issue, and I believe in states' rights. Romney would not respect that-- as his agenda is driven by religion. The Mormon stand on states' rights is always changing, just like everything else.
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_EAllusion
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _EAllusion »

Kevin Graham wrote:It should probably go without saying that the "legalize drugs" crowd is going to come closer to getting what they want with a Democrat in office, than they ever would with a Republican.


It doesn't go without saying. Rand Paul is likely to be a contender for the '16 Republican nomination if Romney does not win. He would be far superior on war on drug issues than any likely Democratic nominee I can think of. It's not a given that a Democrat will always be superior.

Beyond that, with many issues, there is a "Only Nixon can go to China" effect where being the traditional party of a particular issue gives cover for going the other way and ossifies a new norm into the system that would not have otherwise been. That's what Obama did for the Bush/Cheney civil rights viewpoint. What once was hotly contested is now a vast bipartisan consensus.

So, for instance, I'm more hopeful that a Republican will drastically cut military spending than a Democrat, because it will be easier for them to politically get away with it and doing so might create a new bipartisan norm. Ditto for the drug war.

Clinton racheted up the drug war significantly. That was a key plank in his triangulation plan, actually. Obama has been a classic drug warrior. Thinking that a Democrat is your choice if you favor liberal drug policy is like thinking a Republican is your choice if you want deficit reduction. That hasn't been born out by the results in ages.

Second term presidents have nothing to lose, so they can go after what they want full steam ahead.


Because of the lame duck effect, second term presidents tend to have less ambitious second terms than their first term. See Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Eisenhower.
_cinepro
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Re: A "Firing Offense" for Obama

Post by _cinepro »

Adams has followed up with a post describing the aftermath of his original blog:

http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/interesting_day/


My favorite quote:

I'm betting that a chameleon [like Romney] will stay a chameleon. That's his history. He adapts to whatever situation he's in. The alternative is to believe a candidate for President will do all the things he promises during the campaign. How has that worked out for you?
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