Joseph Smith's Memory

[_why me]

When and where did the RLDS develop the idea that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet?

Since Emma still considered her husband to be a prophet, it would be difficult for them to justify Joseph as a fallen prophet.

[_why me]

Your reasoning is like a well-oiled steel trap, Why Me. Please go on.

Emma lived almost thirty-five years after the martyrdom of her Prophet-husband. She died 30 April 1879 in her seventy-fifth year. In her last years she was greatly loved, and in the last hours of her life she was attended by her family: Louis Bidamon, Julia, Joseph III, 26 and Alexander. According to Alexander, Emma seemed to sink away, but then she raised up and stretched out her hand, calling, “Joseph! Joseph!” Falling back on Alexander’s arm, she clasped her hands on her bosom, and her spirit was gone. Both Alexander and Joseph thought she was calling for her son Joseph, but later, Alexander learned more about the incident. Sister Elizabeth Revel, Emma’s nurse, explained that a few days earlier Emma had told her that Joseph came to her in a vision and said, “Emma, come with me, it is time for you to come with me.” “As Emma related it, she said, ‘I put on my bonnet and my shawl and went with him; I did not think that it was anything unusual. I went with him into a mansion, and he showed me through the different apartments of that beautiful mansion.’ And one room was the nursery. In that nursery was a babe in the cradle. She said, ‘I knew my babe, my Don Carlos that was taken from me.’ She sprang forward, caught the child up in her arms, and wept with joy over the child. When Emma recovered herself sufficient she turned to Joseph and said, ‘Joseph, where are the rest of my children.’ He said to her, ‘Emma, be patient and you shall have all of your children.’ Then she saw standing by his side a personage of light, even the Lord Jesus Christ.” 27

https://www.LDS.org/ensign/1992/08/my-g ... h?lang=eng

[_Darth J]

In an interview with her sons a few months before she died, Emma bore testimony: “My belief is that the Book of Mormon is of divine authenticity. I have not the slightest doubt of it. … Though I was an active participant in the scenes that transpired, and was present during the translation of the plates … and had cognizance of things as they transpired, it is marvelous to me, ‘a marvel and a wonder,’ as much as to anyone else.” Describing her experience, she said: “The plates often lay on the table without any attempt at concealment, wrapped in a small linen tablecloth which I had given him [Joseph] to fold them in. I once felt the plates as they lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book.” She also testified, “I know Mormonism to be the truth; and believe the church to have been established by divine direction.”

https://www.LDS.org/ensign/1992/08/my-g ... h?lang=eng

Brigham Young:

"To my certain knowledge, Emma Smith is one of the damnedest liars I know of on this earth;yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her, if she would only be a righteous woman; but she will continue in her wickedness." [Utah Historical Quarterly, vol. 48, Winter 1980, 82]

Why Me, why should we believe Emma's testimony about anything, when the second prophet of the Restoration assures us that she is one of the damnedest liars on this earth?

[_why me]

Who knows. True or false? Much was said in the heat of the moment on both sides.

Never mind, Darth. He is just remembering his own divorce.

You can read the Ensign article written by Emma's great great great grand daughter. She converted to the church and researched Emma. You can pass along the information on the catholic taliban board.

[_Darth J]

Your reasoning is like a well-oiled steel trap, Why Me. Please go on.

Emma lived almost thirty-five years after the martyrdom of her Prophet-husband. She died 30 April 1879 in her seventy-fifth year. In her last years she was greatly loved, and in the last hours of her life she was attended by her family: Louis Bidamon, Julia, Joseph III, 26 and Alexander. According to Alexander, Emma seemed to sink away, but then she raised up and stretched out her hand, calling, “Joseph! Joseph!” Falling back on Alexander’s arm, she clasped her hands on her bosom, and her spirit was gone. Both Alexander and Joseph thought she was calling for her son Joseph, but later, Alexander learned more about the incident. Sister Elizabeth Revel, Emma’s nurse, explained that a few days earlier Emma had told her that Joseph came to her in a vision and said, “Emma, come with me, it is time for you to come with me.” “As Emma related it, she said, ‘I put on my bonnet and my shawl and went with him; I did not think that it was anything unusual. I went with him into a mansion, and he showed me through the different apartments of that beautiful mansion.’ And one room was the nursery. In that nursery was a babe in the cradle. She said, ‘I knew my babe, my Don Carlos that was taken from me.’ She sprang forward, caught the child up in her arms, and wept with joy over the child. When Emma recovered herself sufficient she turned to Joseph and said, ‘Joseph, where are the rest of my children.’ He said to her, ‘Emma, be patient and you shall have all of your children.’ Then she saw standing by his side a personage of light, even the Lord Jesus Christ.” 27

https://www.LDS.org/ensign/1992/08/my-g ... h?lang=eng

That is not even remotely relevant to your assertion that when the Prophet Brigham Young accused Emma of trying to murder Joseph Smith, the Prophet was supposedly speaking "in the heat of the moment."

You're not even wrong, Why Me.

[_why me]

Why Me, why should we believe Emma's testimony about anything, when the second prophet of the Restoration assures us that she is one of the damnedest liars on this earth?

Why believe anybody? But it is good know the story behind these two great personalities and the reasons for bad blood. It took years for the relatives of emma and brigham to get together and bury the hatchet. I believe that it happened just a few years ago.

[_Darth J]

You can read the Ensign article written by Emma's great great great grand daughter. She converted to the church and researched Emma. You can pass along the information on the catholic taliban board.

So in your opinion, referencing the faith-promoting cherry-picked statements quoted by a fourth-generation descendant of Emma is somehow a valid appeal to authority as to whether Emma Smith accepted the revelation on plural marriage, and whether Brigham Young accused her of being a damn liar who tried to kill Joseph.

[_why me]

That is not even remotely relevant to your assertion that when the Prophet Brigham Young accused Emma of trying to murder Joseph Smith, the Prophet was supposedly speaking "in the heat of the moment."

You're not even wrong, Why Me.

With such glowing testimony of her commitment to the Prophet Joseph and the restored gospel, why did Emma not take her children and go west with the Church? Generations have debated the issue, considering many of her comments as reported by others. Some have assumed that Emma lost her faith, others have doubted her integrity. These feelings fostered the unkind remark I had heard years ago while I was viewing Emma’s picture.

It is documented that Emma quarreled with some Church leaders over various aspects of settling Joseph’s estate and that hurt feelings resulted which were not resolved at the time. 19 Yet through prayerful examination of materials, and through refraining from judging the people involved, I have come to peacefully understand that in the threatening atmosphere of persecution that prevailed at the time, some of Emma’s hesitation resulted because she feared for the lives of her children. She did not know whom to trust and there was no time and no peace for the natural healing of her grief to occur. In February 1846, when mob violence continually threatened Church members in Illinois and state officials refused protection, the Apostles, under the direction of Brigham Young, led the Saints into a winter in the wilderness to prepare for the long journey west. To Emma, it apparently was a horrifying idea to take her orphaned children again across the frozen Mississippi without Joseph. When asked many years later why she didn’t go west, she simply replied, “I had a home here, I didn’t know what lay out there.”

I see no proof that she attempted to murder her husband and her great great great grand daughter seems not have found anything of this either or else it would have been in the article.

[_Darth J]

Why Me, why should we believe Emma's testimony about anything, when the second prophet of the Restoration assures us that she is one of the damnedest liars on this earth?

Why believe anybody?

That point being conceded, your have completely surrendered Mormonism's truth claims.

But it is good know the story behind these two great personalities and the reasons for bad blood. It took years for the relatives of emma and brigham to get together and bury the hatchet.

It's really quite simple, Why Me. Either the Prophet Brigham Young was telling the truth, Emma was telling the truth, or both of them were lying. They cannot possibly have both been telling the truth, and it is demonstrable that Emma lied in the interview you so lovingly cite (the interview in which she denies that Joseph ever practiced plural marriage).

I believe that it happened just a few years ago.

It must have been bad blood indeed if they were not able to reconcile until over a hundred years after they died.

[_why me]

So in your opinion, referencing the faith-promoting cherry-picked statements quoted by a fourth-generation descendant of Emma is somehow a valid appeal to authority as to whether Emma Smith accepted the revelation on plural marriage, and whether Brigham Young accused her of being a damn liar who tried to kill Joseph.

Richard Bushman writes of the poisoning accusation:

Through the late fall and winter of 1843 and 1844, Joseph and Emma's relationship broke down only once. During Sunday dinner on November 5, Joseph became ill, rushed to the door, and vomited so violently that he dislocated his jaw. "Every symptom of poison," Richards noted in Joseph's diary. That night at the prayer meeting, Richards, wrote in code that Joseph and Emma did not dress in the usual special clothing, a sign they were too much at odds to participate. The next day, Richards wrote that Joseph was "busy with domestic concerns." Years later, in the anti-Emma atmosphere of Utah, Brigham Young spoke of a meeting where Joseph accused his wife of slipping poison into his coffee. Brigham interpreted Emma's refusal to answer as an admission of guilt.. Though there probably was an argument, the poisoning accusation was unfounded. Joseph was susceptible to vomiting anyway. He had even dislocated his jaw while vomiting once before; and five weeks after the 1843 dinner episode, he was sick again, vomiting more violently than ever. During this last bout, Joseph said gratefully, "My wife waited on me.

Such is life. Bad blood can spread a false rumor. Such are human beings, imperfect. Next problem?