Joseph Smith's Memory

[_Madison54]

Why Me,
You have posted many quotes from Emma singing praises to Joseph. But I think it is pretty telling that she chose to marry her 2nd husband (Lewis C. Bidamon) on Joseph's birthday (they were married in Nauvoo on December 23, 1847).

Was that just a coincidence? Maybe. Or, was it a great big "Happy Birthday to you Joseph, now I've got myself another man"? Guess we'll never know.

I do know that very few women would choose to celebrate their wedding anniversary on the birthday of their previous husband.

[_Fence Sitter]

UD,

I hope you are still following this thread. Can you give a bit of background on what the RLDS church believed regarding polygamy before JSIII joined? I wonder if he aligned himself with them or if he was responsible for the hard line against polygamy in the RLDS?

Here we have multiple witnesses living out their lives (any deathbed testimonies?) loudly proclaiming what is now known to be a lie/conspiracy regarding Joseph Smith's polygamous practices while the obvious parallels to the Book of Mormon testimonies are ignored by most.

[_Yoda]

In the MTC, back in the '70s, besides learning a foreign language, we memorized the discussions in that same foreign language. Many Elders left the MTC having them all memorized. I do not see memorizing lengthy Biblical passages, with which Joseph Smith was already very familiar and in his own language, as extraordinary at all.

Agreed....particularly since, according to his mother, Lucy Mack Smith, he was taught to read with the Bible. That is how most children during that time learned how to read...with the help of a family Bible.

Also, Joseph Smith was not illiterate as some people like to think he was. If you read correspondence that he wrote, it is obvious that he knew basic sentence structure, and had good, basic writing skills. Yes, his spelling was sometimes off, but that is not uncommon with anybody. Some of the best writers in the world were horrific spellers.

[_Yoda]

Why Me,
You have posted many quotes from Emma singing praises to Joseph. But I think it is pretty telling that she chose to marry her 2nd husband (Lewis C. Bidamon) on Joseph's birthday (they were married in Nauvoo on December 23, 1847).

Was that just a coincidence? Maybe. Or, was it a great big "Happy Birthday to you Joseph, now I've got myself another man"? Guess we'll never know.

I do know that very few women would choose to celebrate their wedding anniversary on the birthday of their previous husband.

I don't think there is any doubt that Emma did love Joseph very deeply. I think that is why she put up with the polygamous marriages, etc. Obviously, she was very jealous and hurt, but she loved him in spite of all of that. She was a staunch supporter and partner to Joseph in organizing the Church, and even in the translation of the Book of Mormon. She either believed that Joseph really could translate, or she was in on the fraud, and supported him based on her love for him.

From what I understand, there is documentation somewhere, that before she died, she cried out, "Joseph.." Now, there is some speculation on whether she meant her former husband or her son, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was referring to the prophet.

[_Fence Sitter]

I don't think there is any doubt that Emma did love Joseph very deeply. I think that is why she put up with the polygamous marriages, etc. Obviously, she was very jealous and hurt, but she loved him in spite of all of that. She was a staunch supporter and partner to Joseph in organizing the Church, and even in the translation of the Book of Mormon. She either believed that Joseph really could translate, or she was in on the fraud, and supported him based on her love for him.

From what I understand, there is documentation somewhere, that before she died, she cried out, "Joseph.." Now, there is some speculation on whether she meant her former husband or her son, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was referring to the prophet.

I think we like to romanticize about love. Emma was a nurturing person as evidenced by how many different people she took care of through out her life and yes she probably loved those she took care of but in the end Emma was motivated by the need to protect her family and her position and was willing to do what it took, lying, looking the other way or defying BY, to do both. It's not like she had a lot of choices when it came to putting up with Joseph Smith's polygamy and when she no longer had to, it is clear what her position on it was.

[_Yoda]

I don't think there is any doubt that Emma did love Joseph very deeply. I think that is why she put up with the polygamous marriages, etc. Obviously, she was very jealous and hurt, but she loved him in spite of all of that. She was a staunch supporter and partner to Joseph in organizing the Church, and even in the translation of the Book of Mormon. She either believed that Joseph really could translate, or she was in on the fraud, and supported him based on her love for him.

From what I understand, there is documentation somewhere, that before she died, she cried out, "Joseph.." Now, there is some speculation on whether she meant her former husband or her son, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was referring to the prophet.

I think we like to romanticize about love. Emma was a nurturing person as evidenced by how many different people she took care of through out her life and yes she probably loved those she took care of but in the end Emma was motivated by the need to protect her family and her position and was willing to do what it took, lying, looking the other way or defying BY, to do both. It's not like she had a lot of choices when it came to putting up with Joseph Smith's polygamy and when she no longer had to, it is clear what her position on it was.

True.

And, it is also true that I am a hopeless romantic. LOL

[_MCB]

Also, Joseph Smith was not illiterate as some people like to think he was. If you read correspondence that he wrote, it is obvious that he knew basic sentence structure, and had good, basic writing skills.

Those academic skills were achieved only through hard work. For example, I may work harder to understand what others say in certain situations, but I like to think that my hearing loss (with HA's) is not a significant problem. It is the same way with a compensated learning disability. Joseph Smith had the motivation to develop the academic skills necessary for his chosen profession-- that of religious con-artist.

[_Madison54]

I think we like to romanticize about love. Emma was a nurturing person as evidenced by how many different people she took care of through out her life and yes she probably loved those she took care of but in the end Emma was motivated by the need to protect her family and her position and was willing to do what it took, lying, looking the other way or defying BY, to do both. It's not like she had a lot of choices when it came to putting up with Joseph Smith's polygamy and when she no longer had to, it is clear what her position on it was.

I think your assessment is accurate regarding Emma's feelings and position.

I believe she was extremely bitter when it came to Joseph's behavior with other women and polygamy (the evidence is that she lied about it). But, I do believe that she still loved Joseph.
Romantically? I don't know how much romance would be left after all the other women.

I think it's similar to how even today many women (and men) stay with a cheating spouse....for the kids and for the lifestyle, etc. But there's not much romance left in their marriage.

[Bedlamite]

UD,

I hope you are still following this thread. Can you give a bit of background on what the RLDS church believed regarding polygamy before JSIII joined? I wonder if he aligned himself with them or if he was responsible for the hard line against polygamy in the RLDS?

Here we have multiple witnesses living out their lives (any deathbed testimonies?) loudly proclaiming what is now known to be a lie/conspiracy regarding Joseph Smith's polygamous practices while the obvious parallels to the Book of Mormon testimonies are ignored by most.

First of all, we need to recall that there was no church
Prior to April of 1860. There was a movement dedicated
to a reorganization, mostly comprised of former members
who believed that Joseph III should have succeeded his
father in the Presidency. In 1860 the leaders of that
reorganization movement were able to convince Smith
to accept that position in what amounted to a new
Church. Emma approved -- and I think did more than
just approve. The reorganization meeting was held in
the Illinois town where several of her relatives lived.
She was a major figure in that reorganization.

Some of the members knew that Joe Smith had been
a polygamist. Emma knew it -- Marks knew it -- Isaac
Sheen, editor of the Church's newspaper in Cincinnati
knew it, etc. etc. Sheen admitted to Smith's polygamy
in the first issue of that newspaper. For him, and for
some other members, Smith had been a fallen
Prophet. But Emma and Joseph III soon put an end
to that belief among the early members.

They came to profess that Smith had merely sealed
multiple women to himself and other Mormons --
and that such sealings were non-sexual.

By the time that they had re-admitted William Smith,
a known polygamist ---a few years later, the RLDS
were in full denial mode. They actually believed William
when he testified that neither he, Joseph or Hyrum
had ever engaged in secret polygamy, or taught
that doctrine to others. A blatant lie -- but by then
(the 1880s) the early knowing members were dying
off, and the lies stuck. It has remained that way until
just very recently.

UD

[_Fence Sitter]

I think it's similar to how even today many women (and men) stay with a cheating spouse....for the kids and for the lifestyle, etc. But there's not much romance left in their marriage.

I agree 100% and believe it was much more difficult back then for a women to leave than it is today. Emma had very few options. I am impressed by the number of times we know of where Emma fought Joseph Smith on polygamy. There is a reason BY despised her so, in her he encountered a woman who would just say no, except of course, when a $1000.00 bribe was involved, then she wouldn't say anything.

Thanks for the response UD!!!