Speaking up in Gospel Doctrine class yesterday

[_consiglieri]

At a different point, the teacher asked an interesting question of the class.

She mentioned how the Nephites got to ask anything they wanted to of Christ while he was with them, although the answers were not written. (Not sure where she got that exactly, but it led into her question.)

Her question was, "If you could ask Jesus any question you wanted, what would it be?"

I said loud enough for her to hear that that question could not have come from the manual. She laughed and said it was her own question.

There was a big silence because apparently nobody had any questions.

So I raised my hand, at which point the teacher called on me and asked me not to be too controversial. I said the question I would ask is, "Why is it that bad things happen to good people?"

A sister in front of me and to the left raised her hand, then, and said what she was going to say might be controversial, too, but she would ask why is it that gay people can't be accepted in the Church.

I thought that was pretty brave of her, so I went up to her after class and I told her I thought I knew what Jesus would answer to her question; that he would say, "There is nothing wrong with gay people and I am trying my hardest to get that through the thick heads of the old codgers in Salt Lake, and eventually I'm going to get the message through."

She laughed and said she really appreciated that because she has a younger brother who is gay and this is a really difficult issue for her. She started tearing up at this point, so I said, "I hope you don't mind me speaking for Jesus. It's what I do."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Zelder]

I'm an abstract thinker too and so I enjoy theorizing and wondering about mysteries. However, the problem with discussing mysteries is that it's all speculation. There's virtually no revelation coming to the church anymore and revelation is the only way to know any of the mysteries about God.

I'm 33 and never in my lifetime has there ever been a revelation from God to the church. There has been no new scripture, no answers to questions. It's almost as if there is again a famine in the land. All we can do is speculate and I'm not sure how that is going to help strengthen faith at church.

[_consiglieri]

Thanks for your comments, Zelder.

This helps remind me that I am not speaking theoretically, but from experience.

There is so much to learn beyond the correlated spoonfed gospel pablum we get at church. I know this from experience.

Mormonism claims all truth, let it come from what source it may.

At least Joseph Smith's Mormonism did. Brigham Young's, too, if memory serves.

The goal now is to reduce the size of Mormon doctrine to as small a target as possible with the hope that it will take fewer hits from its critics.

At least that's the way I see it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Stormy Waters]

I'm an abstract thinker too and so I enjoy theorizing and wondering about mysteries. However, the problem with discussing mysteries is that it's all speculation. There's virtually no revelation coming to the church anymore and revelation is the only way to know any of the mysteries about God.

I'm 33 and never in my lifetime has there ever been a revelation from God to the church. There has been no new scripture, no answers to question. It's almost as if there is again a famine in the land. All we can do is speculate and I'm not sure how that is going to help strengthen faith at church.

It may be speculation but least it's something to talk about. The speculation and debates are far, far better than the lessons where everyone sticks to the manual. Because at least some of it is new.

[_RockSlider]

She laughed and said she really appreciated that because she has a younger brother who is gay and this is a really difficult issue for her. She started tearing up at this point, so I said, "I hope you don't mind me speaking for Jesus. It's what I do."

Righteous human beings, moved by the spirit, yes an army of ministering angels.

[_RockSlider]

There is so much to learn beyond the correlated spoonfed gospel pablum we get at church. I know this from experience.
Mormonism claims all truth, let it come from what source it may.
At least Joseph Smith's Mormonism did. Brigham Young's, too, if memory serves.
The goal now is to reduce the size of Mormon doctrine to as small a target as possible with the hope that it will take fewer hits from its critics.
At least that's the way I see it.

x2

[_Zelder]

Thanks for your comments, Zelder.

This helps remind me that I am not speaking theoretically, but from experience.

There is so much to learn beyond the correlated spoonfed gospel pablum we get at church. I know this from experience.

Mormonism claims all truth, let it come from what source it may.

At least Joseph Smith's Mormonism did. Brigham Young's, too, if memory serves.

The goal now is to reduce the size of Mormon doctrine to as small a target as possible with the hope that it will take fewer hits from its critics.

At least that's the way I see it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

If you could teach the class and throw away the manual what would be the first 10 lessons you would teach?

[_zeezrom]

Consig,

You are my hero. You are pretty much the only person on earth that makes me think I could start going back and enjoying church again.

Yours,

Zee.

[_bcspace]

Feeling that if I’m in for a penny, I’m in for a pound, I raised my hand again and said that what President Kimball says here tends toward the newer strain of Mormonism in not seeking out the mysteries; that he accomplishes this by setting a standard of perfection on the part of the saints before anything new will come; but that the standard of perfection is not something any individual can attain, much less the entire body of saints.

The teacher agreed that perfection would not be possible to attain.

I followed it up by asking the teacher whether the saints in Joseph Smith’s day were perfect. She immediately said no. I said that in spite of their imperfections, they nevertheless received an overflowing surge of revelation from Joseph Smith in the form of sections in the D&C, the JST, and even new books of scripture like the Book of Abraham.

Somebody behind me was then called on who said that if we were not worthy to know what is in the sealed portion, that knowledge would condemn us. My thought was that the perfection I had just pushed out the front door had crawled in through the back window.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your argumentation. But I do think that in those days, much needed to be revealed to accomplish the restoration which was the greater dependency. I do agree that it's tough and a trial of faith to not have these days be like those days, but I certainly can see that in general and for the time being we have all we need and any great mysteries to be revealed will most likely be personal and therefore, not for the Church or the world as a whole. I am certainly NOT saying we, individually or as a Church, should not seek for and expect greater knowledge and miracles right now.

[_consiglieri]

If you could teach the class and throw away the manual what would be the first 10 lessons you would teach?

Class Number One--Throw away the manual.

God is not restricted to a temple nor his Spirit to a book.

Everything else flows from there.

How's that for starters?