Racism and the Book of Mormon

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_why me
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _why me »

Themis wrote:
Mary wrote:Why Me, can you not step out of your 'I must defend anything and everything about the LDS church no matter at what cost' and just see if from this quiet, gentle softly spoken Navajo man's perspective. Walk in his shoes, just for an hour.


You know this will not happen. Extreme bias never seems to allow people like whyme to try and see things from any other perspective then their own.


According to Mary, this was a wonderful video that more or less took an unbiased position. Hardly. He filmed Mormons in secret through a rather poor camera while filming critics with a much better film quality. Also, the critics that he filmed knew that they were being filmed. Editing always favors the bias and this happened in this movie. And then, the last word by the professor with a chip on her shoulder about all christians, and in particular the Mormons, showed extreme bias against christians and in particular Mormons.

Of course Mary does not seem to worry about such bias because the film is soft and gentle in tone.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Themis
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Themis »

why me wrote:
According to Mary, this was a wonderful video that more or less took an unbiased position. Hardly. He filmed Mormons in secret through a rather poor camera while filming critics with a much better film quality. Also, the critics that he filmed knew that they were being filmed. Editing always favors the bias and this happened in this movie. And then, the last word by the professor with a chip on her shoulder about all christians, and in particular the Mormons, showed extreme bias against christians and in particular Mormons.

Of course Mary does not seem to worry about such bias because the film is soft and gentle in tone.


First you make assumptions about what Mary said that was not said. This is a horrible habit you have. Second your post doesn't deal with your extreme bias and inability to see other perspectives.
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_why me
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _why me »

Themis wrote:
First you make assumptions about what Mary said that was not said. This is a horrible habit you have. Second your post doesn't deal with your extreme bias and inability to see other perspectives.


Here is what Mary said about the video:

Someone over on Facebook has also just posted links to this documentary made by a young Navajo man about the effect of Book of Mormon teachings on his people and on Polynesians. It is very gentle, honest and non-confrontational and has all the more impact because of it.

Worth watching.


I saw no honesty in filming people in secret. And the professor was far from gentle at the end of the video nor was she non-confrontational. Also, the maker of the video had bias written all over his forehead.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Drifting
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:I saw no honesty in filming people in secret.


It wasn't secret, it was sacred filming. Big difference, apparently...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Drifting
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:I saw no honesty in filming people in secret. And the professor was far from gentle at the end of the video nor was she non-confrontational. Also, the maker of the video had bias written all over his forehead.



Why Me, can you see any justification for keeping things secret?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Mary
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Mary »

why me wrote:
I saw no honesty in filming people in secret. And the professor was far from gentle at the end of the video nor was she non-confrontational. Also, the maker of the video had bias written all over his forehead.


Why me. Angelo Baca's film explores how LDS teachings have affected those who have come under its influence. Of course there are larger issues at play in terms of the attitude of those who emigrated to America towards Native Americans. I don't think anyone is denying this.

Angelo is now teaching classes at Brown and his interests are in ethnic studies in general. A synopsis of this film (one of others) is here as well as a short biography of Angelo:

CSREA/Ethnic Studies is pleased to welcome filmmaker and scholar Angelo Baca to Brown University. Angelo Baca will be teaching two courses this academic year. During fall 2012, he will teach "Native Americans in the Media," and in spring 2013, "Introduction to Native American Literature." As part of his engagement with the Ethnic Studies dept., Prof. Baca will host the Ethnic Studies film series during fall 2012. Among the films to be presented, is Prof. Baca's 2008 film: "In Laman's Term: Looking at Lamanite Identity." **Films are free and open to the public and will be followed by a Q & A session.

In Laman's Terms: Looking at Lamanite Identity "What is a Lamanite?" Based on this single basic question, one Native American man seeks out to answer questions about Indian and Mormon identity. Angelo Baca, a Navajo and Hopi filmmaker, takes a personal journey exploring the influences of the Mormom culture upon his own and what the definition of a Lamanite really meansfrom indivuduals within the church as well as outside of it. Traveling accross the country from New York to Hawaii, issues such as colonization, assimilation, and proselytizing of indigenous populations are confronted and discussed. From an indigenous perspective, this provocative documentary explores the impacts of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints and the Book of Mormon has on native peoples and communities challenging the traditional, some might even say racist, notions of the original term and its place in the church's teachings. A documentary whose answers will surprise and enlighten viewers.


http://www.brown.edu/academics/race-eth ... oins-csrea

Angelo Baca is not an enemy of the LDS church Why Me. No organisation should be above reproach or beyond criticism. Criticism and analysis is healthy. This is an important issue that has impacted many peoples, whether they be Native Americans, Polynesians, or Black Africans.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Mary
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Mary »

Just to highlight also that Darron Smith, an active African/American has just begun a petition here:

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-mor ... cks-cursed

The full letter is here:

Petition Letter

I am writing you today to ask the Mormon Church to make an official apology regarding its past racist teachings declaring Blacks as cursed.

I know that the Church no longer believes in such racist ideas as evidenced in the public response opposing former BYU Religion Professor Randy Bott’s interpretation on Blacks. The Church acknowledged the restriction that was placed on Blacks at one time, yet went on to say, “It is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction began in the Church.”

This is not acceptable. By being silent on this issue, there are members who continue to believe the old racist folklore that not only were Blacks cursed, but it was God’s will to do so. The reality is that the Mormon Church, just like every other Christian-based faith of the time, used a racist frame to interpret scripture. A recent 2012 online survey for Mormons, revealed that the majority still heard the teachings regularly in church. It also revealed that black Mormon members overwhelmingly asked for a public, unambiguous apology.

I am asking that the Mormon Church stand up like other Christian faiths who have declared public apologies (Methodists, Southern Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian), and take ownership in your past racist teachings. God was not discriminatory or racist. I hope that you join hands with other Christian-based faiths and do the right thing. Declare an official apology for your abhorrent actions based on earlier teachings.


I know that not everyone is a fan of petitions, but my own personal opinion is that push for change has to start 'somewhere'.

If anyone feels they can sign it, I know Darron would be appreciative.

Darron's biography is here: http://www.darronsmith.com/

For anyone who doesn't know about Darron's background. He was a professor at BYU until he was fired for writing a book on such issues as have been discussed on here often.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Mary
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Mary »

"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_why me
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _why me »

Mary wrote:
Why me. Angelo Baca's film explores how LDS teachings have affected those who have come under its influence. Of course there are larger issues at play in terms of the attitude of those who emigrated to America towards Native Americans. I don't think anyone is denying this.

Angelo is now teaching classes at Brown and his interests are in ethnic studies in general. A synopsis of this film (one of others) is here as well as a short biography of Angelo:

CSREA/Ethnic Studies is pleased to welcome filmmaker and scholar Angelo Baca to Brown University. Angelo Baca will be teaching two courses this academic year. During fall 2012, he will teach "Native Americans in the Media," and in spring 2013, "Introduction to Native American Literature." As part of his engagement with the Ethnic Studies dept., Prof. Baca will host the Ethnic Studies film series during fall 2012. Among the films to be presented, is Prof. Baca's 2008 film: "In Laman's Term: Looking at Lamanite Identity." **Films are free and open to the public and will be followed by a Q & A session.

In Laman's Terms: Looking at Lamanite Identity "What is a Lamanite?" Based on this single basic question, one Native American man seeks out to answer questions about Indian and Mormon identity. Angelo Baca, a Navajo and Hopi filmmaker, takes a personal journey exploring the influences of the Mormom culture upon his own and what the definition of a Lamanite really meansfrom indivuduals within the church as well as outside of it. Traveling accross the country from New York to Hawaii, issues such as colonization, assimilation, and proselytizing of indigenous populations are confronted and discussed. From an indigenous perspective, this provocative documentary explores the impacts of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints and the Book of Mormon has on native peoples and communities challenging the traditional, some might even say racist, notions of the original term and its place in the church's teachings. A documentary whose answers will surprise and enlighten viewers.


http://www.brown.edu/academics/race-eth ... oins-csrea

Angelo Baca is not an enemy of the LDS church Why Me. No organisation should be above reproach or beyond criticism. Criticism and analysis is healthy. This is an important issue that has impacted many peoples, whether they be Native Americans, Polynesians, or Black Africans.


I never said that he was an enemy of the LDS church. But he wasn't honest in his video. He wanted the LDS church to look bad. And a director of a film should not film people without them knowing as he seems to have done. Also, he had professional critics address his questions and in return, he had a couple of missionaries attempt to answer from the LDS point of view. It wasn't a fair documentary by any stretch of the imagination. But then, it wasn't meant to be.

And it wasn't honest nor non-confrontational.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Kishkumen
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Re: Racism and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

My position is this:

The LDS Church should apologize for past racist teachings and policies.

That said, I think that many critics of the LDS Church on the topic of race go too far in condemning Mormonism as a belief system.

If we were to treat every conversion as a kind of implicit act of colonialism, then education would be utterly impossible. I think this comes out nowhere more clearly than in the controversy over Captain Cook, where you see Euro and non-Euro scholars clashing through the tools of western scholarship over the precise meaning of the native people's reception of the captain.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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