David Twede has resigned his membership.

[_Kishkumen]

When David broke his story, the critics on this forum were behind him 100 percent. Maybe kish was an exception but...most went with the flow. His threads had very little opposition to my recollection on this forum. And many wanted the church to be seen in a bad light over this affair. Sorry, the critics were played like a good violin and they got a little burned with this one. No reason to pout about it. Just call it a learning lesson. I know that when I defended the local bishop by claiming that david's site was antimormon, I took a lot of hits by people on this board. But hey, such is life, right? And when I questioned the reason for him going public I took some more hits from members on this board....but hey who's complaining?

I chirp in on this thread on page 2.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... =1&t=25910

The critics were rallying around MormonThink big time.

What would be wrong with rallying around MormonThink? MormonThink as a whole did not do this; David Twede did. And frankly, we don't really know all of what he did. I think it was a publicity stunt that was ill-conceived and rather lame. At the same time, the apologists were up to their usual gossiping and informing on people. So, David Twede acted silly, and the apologists did their usual bush league Gestapo act. I don't know that anyone is to be congratulated here. Certainly, David Twede's ignominious exit is lame.

Frankly, the wiki entry at FAIR was lame, and it was good they took it down. Taking it down was probably the only commendable thing that the apologists did.

What I guess I don't understand is all the ego-stroking why me is doing on himself here. He played zero role in all of this. Why is he patting himself on the back for doing nothing?

[Guest]

What would be wrong with rallying around MormonThink? MormonThink as a whole did not do this; David Twede did. And frankly, we don't really know all of what he did. I think it was a publicity stunt that was ill-conceived and rather lame. At the same time, the apologists were up to their usual gossiping and informing on people. So, David Twede acted silly, and the apologists did their usual bush league Gestapo act. I don't know that anyone is to be congratulated here. Certainly, David Twede's ignominious exit is lame.

Frankly, the wiki entry at FAIR was lame, and it was good they took it down. Taking it down was probably the only commendable thing that the apologists did.

What I guess I don't understand is all the ego-stroking why me is doing on himself here. He played zero role in all of this. Why is he patting himself on the back for doing nothing?

I remember that David mentioned on his blog that the board of MormonThink was contemplating the next move that they should do...take it public or not...they chose to take it public with the Romney angle for maximum publicity. That is my take on it. Why am I patting myself on the back...because I called this one right. Even in Twede's resignation letter he mentions the hits that the site is now getting...patting himself on the back. What was my role? No role...just called it right. Also, in my take that the site was antimormon...david's resignation letter and what it contained proved me right on that issue too.

The critics got taken for a ride...the lesson to be learned is rather simple....just don't jump on the antimormon caboose...without knowing the direction of the train.

But of course, I can be wrong on my take...the affair has become rather fuzzy.

[_Blixa]

When David broke his story, the critics on this forum were behind him 100 percent. Maybe kish was an exception but...most went with the flow. His threads had very little opposition to my recollection on this forum. And many wanted the church to be seen in a bad light over this affair. Sorry, the critics were played like a good violin and they got a little burned with this one. No reason to pout about it. Just call it a learning lesson. I know that when I defended the local bishop by claiming that david's site was antimormon, I took a lot of hits by people on this board. But hey, such is life, right? And when I questioned the reason for him going public I took some more hits from members on this board....but hey who's complaining?

I chirp in on this thread on page 2.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25910

The critics were rallying around MormonThink big time.

What would be wrong with rallying around MormonThink? MormonThink as a whole did not do this; David Twede did. And frankly, we don't really know all of what he did. I think it was a publicity stunt that was ill-conceived and rather lame. At the same time, the apologists were up to their usual gossiping and informing on people. So, David Twede acted silly, and the apologists did their usual bush league Gestapo act. I don't know that anyone is to be congratulated here. Certainly, David Twede's ignominious exit is lame.

Frankly, the wiki entry at FAIR was lame, and it was good they took it down. Taking it down was probably the only commendable thing that the apologists did.

What I guess I don't understand is all the ego-stroking why me is doing on himself here. He played zero role in all of this. Why is he patting himself on the back for doing nothing?

There was a lot of suspicion here (and in other places I frequent) toward Twede's story. And a lot of suspicion and condemnation of apologists hay-making over the situation.

Brad Hudson and Wiki Wonka are to be commended for their civil discussion. Although their efforts haven't answered all questions, it's at least clear that they made (and continue to make) efforts to represent things as accurately as possible and be fair to all sides. Still, I share some of the frustration of LDST about reportage vs. gossip and the always difficult territory of negotiating family relationships around the (assumed) opposition of believer/nonbeliever.

Self important troll continues to be self important. That's the only advice I have for Brad--pay no attention to the attention seeking troll.

[_why me]

Self important troll continues to be self important. That's the only advice I have for Brad--pay no attention to the attention seeking troll.

There are several threads committed to Dan at the moment. May you come to his defense and show concern for his family too. However, if I remember correctly, you never shown concern for the informant who was invading Dan's personal space and reporting back to Scratch. And this is the hypocrisy that I see on this board.

I called it right. What can I say. I hope that you will be safe from the storm. Time to get your water and hunker down.

[_why me]

And a lot of suspicion and condemnation of apologists hay-making over the situation.

Strange on how you forgot to mention the haymaking by the critics when Twede first came out with his story. A lot of hay was made on this board at that time and all over the critic boards.

[_Kishkumen]

But of course, I can be wrong on my take...the affair has become rather fuzzy.

You know why me, the reason I don't have any respect for you at all is because you treat your religion like a couch potato treats his favorite football team or some loser in high school treated his favorite metal band. You obviously have your ego tightly wrapped up in it and so you're keeping score. Although there are no clear-cut "teams," you create them in your mind to fill your need to find something larger than yourself to invest ego in. The minute something cuts the way you thought it might, you are all over it like a fly on a cow patty declaring victory and everyone else a loser.

Why? Because you are sad little man.

Whether David Twede did something wrong or not does not change the fact that the LDS disciplinary process was shown to be problematic in the way he was able to manipulate it for his own purposes. The apologetic clipping service at the SCMC to which Gordon (a.k.a. Gordon's "friend") sent the information on Twede is creepy, and ought not to exist. If there weren't such an intelligence service throwing discipline into high gear and chasing people down, well, Twede would not have gotten half the mileage he did. In the end, the loser was the LDS community, which, in spite of all the good in it, came off looking rather odd and off-putting.

My hope is that the lesson learned here would be one of leaving people like Twede alone so that they don't get their 5 minutes of fame. Chasing them down makes both the Church and Twede look worse.

[_Kishkumen]

And a lot of suspicion and condemnation of apologists hay-making over the situation.

Strange on how you forgot to mention the haymaking by the critics when Twede first came out with his story. A lot of hay was made on this board at that time and all over the critic boards.

Yes, why me, you are definitely confused. Apt emoticon indeed. Hay is made out of a broken process for dealing with struggling members because the methods in place don't work. Chasing down Twede was just stupid, and that is completely obvious now.

It is amazing that you would celebrate an incident that makes the LDS Church look really strange as though it were a personal victory for you.

[_why me]

Why? Because you are sad little man.

My hope is that the lesson learned here would be one of leaving people like Twede alone so that they don't get their 5 minutes of fame. Chasing them down makes both the Church and Twede look worse.

On the twede thread that I linked to, the critics were having a field day insulting the LDS church over their treatment of twede. I tried to say that the it is a local ward in florida and not the LDS church. I took a hounding. I also tried to link mormonthink with the publicity wagon that was being formed...I took a hounding. The five minutes of fame was not given to twede by the local ward or by apologists. But by the mormonthink board. Once it became public it became open game for apologists to have their say. And so it went. And I did say in a previous post that critics should be careful where they hook their caboose.

Have you said anything about the Dan threads that currently occupy the board...people are certainly chasing him down.

[_Kishkumen]

I tried to say that the it is a local ward in florida and not the LDS church.

And here we see yet another reason why you deserve zero credit for anything, including understanding what happened here.

The threat of Church discipline did not originate at Twede's local ward or stake, but in Salt Lake City, the place where Scott Gordon's information landed. Gordon sent the information to a "friend," who was probably someone associated with the SCMC, and that "friend" probably constructed a file that was passed along to higher level leaders. What we know for certain, though, is that the disciplinary process originated in SLC, not Twede's local unit.

[_LDS truthseeker]

Whether David Twede did something wrong or not does not change the fact that the LDS disciplinary process was shown to be problematic in the way he was able to manipulate it for his own purposes. The apologetic clipping service at the SCMC to which Gordon (a.k.a. Gordon's "friend") sent the information on Twede is creepy, and ought not to exist. If there weren't such an intelligence service throwing discipline into high gear and chasing people down, well, Twede would not have gotten half the mileage he did. In the end, the loser was the LDS community, which, in spite of all the good in it, came off looking rather odd and off-putting.

My hope is that the lesson learned here would be one of leaving people like Twede alone so that they don't get their 5 minutes of fame. Chasing them down makes both the Church and Twede look worse.

This whole thing is actually good for dissidents because the church backed off on their disciplinary council after it was made public. The long-reaching affect is hopefully the church learned a lesson that if they want to start holding councils on people discussing church history or any number of things the church doesn't like, those people can go to the press and make it totally not worth it for the church. It worked for Tom Murphy and for David Twede. Witch hunts are not good publicity for the church and I submit that as a result of this event there will be less church courts held and perhaps more tolerance for free thinkers and that's always good news.

I know people that have been chastised by their bishops for Facebook posts regarding Prop 8. These kinds of things need to stop and if this event helped prevent those abuses of power then that's a good thing in my opinion.