Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

Post by _DrW »

Changed the Thread Title to better indicate the hoped-for direction of this thread and to make it somewhat parallel with the TBM = YEC? thread in the Celestial Forum. This thread was started as an opportunity for Little Nipper to show us what he's really got.

Hopefully other TBMs, especially those who consider themselves YEC, or who believe that they can explain the stark contradictions between the science that supports evolution and the creation myth in the LDS Standard Works, will participate in this thread or the TBM = YEC? thread.
_______________________________

On a long Global Flood Thread in the Celestial Forum, Little Nipper continues to defend his literalist view and Biblical Creationism as best he can.

A recent exchange with LN on that thread prompted this OP. I know that there have been any number Bible vs Science threads on MDB – but this one will have pictures.

Concerning YEC, we find the following on Conservapedia:

Young Earth Creationism, sometimes abbreviated YEC, is a form of creationism which holds that the earth and the universe are approximately 6,000 years old.
Young earth creationists hold that both creation and the evolutionary position are at root tied to worldviews, and because they are both claims about historical (or prehistorical) events, they depend on untestable assumptions. At the same time, young earth creation scientists argue that the young universe view is the explanation that best fits the evidence.


So, for those YEC believers on the board (you know who you are), here is your chance to demonstrate that YEC is the best explanation for data from the science of geology.

To make this relevant to the Bible and the Book of Mormon, I have chosen to use geological data from the Arabian Peninsula, and specifically from the wilderness in which the LDS GA’s tell us that the Nephites would have roamed (had they actually existed), before leaving for the new world.

The YEC crowd claims that the Earth was created by magic about 6,000 years ago. In Joseph Smith’s story, the Nephites left from a point that an inspired General Authority of the Church identified as the coast of Oman approximately 2,600 years ago.

So between the Biblical time of the creation of the Earth 6,000 years ago and the departure of the Nephites for the New World from Oman 2,600 years ago, the YECs have a mere 3,400 years to squeeze in approximately 800 million years of events from geological record of the Arabian Peninsula.

On this thread, I will make a number of posts describing geological events on the Arabian Peninsula that are clearly shown in the geological record. Little Nipper and the YECs are invited to explain these events using Biblical creationism.

Let’s start with two long term glaciations (ice ages) during which the glaciers left deep striations in bedrock with intervening strata from more than 100 million years.

What the image below shows is the striations made in the bedrock (pavement) by rocks carried by glaciers as they slowly grind their way over the underlying material. These same striations can be observed in the bedrock under modern glaciers in Iceland and elsewhere.

Image

There is no mention in the Bible of glaciers in the Arabic Peninsula / Red Sea area. Surely the YECs on the board can explain why this is.

Other types of events will be described, with images including subsea volcanic eruptions, millions of years worth of reef building, formation of oil and gas at great depth, formation and bedding of coal from ancient forests, massive uplift and folding processes, and those pesky marine fossils at 6,000 above sea level that I posted earlier this year.

These will be discussed, with images on this thread showing showing the the Arabic Peninsula has been around as an identifiable landmass for at least 800 million years.

YECs should enjoy explaining how biblical creationism accounts for these geological events.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _zeezrom »

Here are some 150 million year old dinosaur tracks discovered on the Arabic Peninsula.

Image
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _DrW »

Pillow Lava is formed when magma forces it way through the Earth's crust and emerges into water. Large Pillow Lava formations are found near the mountains of the Arabian Peninsula. These are incontrovertible evidence that the landmass that forms this mountain range was once covered by the sea. Marine vertebrate and coral fossil laden limestone found at high elevations are consistent with this view. There were several of these submersion epochs, some lasted for hundreds of thousands of years.

Image

Unless the YECs believe that the Bible puts the Arabian Peninsula under water half a dozen different times between 6,000 years ago and 4,800 years ago or show that large coral reefs can be formed in mainly fresh water in 40 days, they will have a problem with these pillow lava formations, as well.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _Chap »

Dr W. is clearly an anti-YEC.

So his point of view is biased, as well as being motivated by hate and religious bigotry.

It would obviously be pointless to discuss anything with him, since his mind is already made up.

I just thought I could save time by pointing this out right at the start.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _DrW »

zeezrom wrote:Here are some 150 million year old dinosaur tracks discovered on the Arabic Peninsula.

Image


No problem for YECs. Please see below:

Image
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _DrW »

Chap wrote:Dr W. is clearly an anti-YEC.

So his point of view is biased, as well as being motivated by hate and religious bigotry.

It would obviously be pointless to discuss anything with him, since his mind is already made up.

I just thought I could save time by pointing this out right at the start.


Thanks, Chap.

Hopefully the YECs will show up anyway.

Little Nipper has been provided with a special written invitation.

Subgenius has been invited as well.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _Tobin »

Oh, subgenius believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old?!? Fascinating. Are there really Mormons that actually believe that and why?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_son of Ishmael
_Emeritus
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _son of Ishmael »

I forget which Star Trek movie it was but there was one where they had the 'genesis project" (the one where Spock dies saving the ship). Anyway at the end of the movie they shoot some missile thing at a dead planet and in just a short time it gets an atmosphere and produces all sorts of plant life and animals and such (that is also how they bring Spock back to life).

I have had YECs try to explain the creation of earth much in the same way. Some how god is able to speed time up and slow it down as he requires so the things that we think took millions of years to happened really on took a few hundred years. Isn't magic wonderful?
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
Posts: 7625
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _Ceeboo »

Good day DrW :smile:

DrW wrote: but this one will have pictures.


Awesome! :smile:

So, for those YEC believers on the board (you know who you are)


Ceeboo remains dead silent as he looks to see if Bond is close by. :lol:

The YEC crowd claims that the Earth was created by magic about 6,000 years ago.


Magic? No sir!
My beloved YEC brethren (as well as all the other creationists that I have ever known) claim that the Earth was created by a Creator - a.k.a. - God!

Magic, my dear friend, would be like suggesting that the Earth was not created, and it just, well....... appeared (Magic!) from nothing.........out of nothingness.........by mere chance some 80 million years ago. :biggrin:

On this thread, I will make a number of posts describing geological events on the Arabian Peninsula that are clearly shown in the geological record.


Must you? (Kidding friend!) :smile:

Let’s start with two long term glaciations (ice ages) during which the glaciers left deep striations in bedrock


My beloved YEC brethren tell me that these striations are likely from landslides and not glaciers. (Now why would they suggest landslides????

by the way: Why do you think the precambrian striations are global? (Please notice the question mark. It really is/was a question that I am asking)

There is no mention in the Bible of glaciers in the Arabic Peninsula / Red Sea area.


Yes, there sure isn't.
There is also no mention in the Bible of golf clubs, toaster ovens, or prostate exams.

Other types of events will be described, with images including subsea volcanic eruptions, millions of years worth of reef building, formation of oil and gas at great depth, formation and bedding of coal from ancient forests, massive uplift and folding processes, and those pesky marine fossils at 6,000 above sea level that I posted earlier this year.


I better get to studying then.

These will be discussed, with images on this thread showing showing the the Arabic Peninsula has been around as an identifiable landmass for at least 800 million years.


Wait.... How can the Arabic Peninsula have been here for at least 800 million years if what the Arabic Peninsula is placed on has only been around less than 10,000 years? :confused:

YECs should enjoy explaining how biblical creationism accounts for these geological events.


One note of clarity, if I may.

All creationists are creationists. The only difference being that some creationists tend to accept the flawed dating methods used by evolutionist, and some do not! :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Sethbag
_Emeritus
Posts: 6855
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Biblical Young Earth Creationism

Post by _Sethbag »

I'll give it a try.

When Adam first left the Garden of Eden the Earth was still one single landmass. Then, in the days of Peleg, the Earth was divided. During this division, as God was moving all the continents to where they are today, some land that had been submerged was raised up, and vice versa.

The Flood. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but the water took like a year to recede, so they don't have to explain how all this stuff happened in just 40 days, stupid. They had a whole 365 days!

While Noah's Ark was bobbing up and down on the waves, little did Noah's family and all those animals know that God was working his magic on the land that was submerged, making great changes. Sure there would have been tsunamis and whatnot, but God just made sure the ark wasn't in any of these tsunamis' paths, through the application of his omniscience.

Dating methods scientists use are all wrong, for reasons I can't comprehend but accept as truth, because Ken Ham assured me they are.

So, combine wrong dating methods, the Flood, the division of the Earth in the days of Peleg, magic, and some hand-waving exercises, and the Bible is absolutely correct on the creation of the Earth, and millions of Darwinist scientists have joined in a nefarious anti-God conspiracy to suppress the truths of the Bible with Satan-inspired Darwinist lies straight from the pits of Hell.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Post Reply