Young Earth Creationism in the LDS Church

[_Ceeboo]

Where is DrW?

I bet he's out looking for dinosaurs!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[Guest]

Where is DrW?

I bet he's out looking for dinosaurs!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Thanks for your concern.

(I have been asleep. As I am posting this, it is just after 5:00 am here.)

Zee's image of the dinosaur footprints is a great segue to another data set for the YECs to ponder; that of the extinction of the dinosaurs, and pretty much every other large vertebrate on the face of the Earth, at the boundary between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary periods (K-T boundary) about 65 million years ago.

This boundary is marked in the geological record by a thin layer of clay that is rich in the element Iridium, an element especially abundant in many extraterrestrial bodies such as the one that left a large impact crater in the Caribbean 65 million years ago. Since its discovery in the 1980s, there is a growing consensus that an astroid impact in the Caribbean caused a catastrophic drop in temperature because of the material ejected into the atmosphere by the impact. Before this material settled out and blanketed pretty much the entire planet, it caused a lowering of the temperature of the atmosphere the caused rapid extinction of the dinosaurs.



The image below is from the paper cited wherein this K-T boundary layer was identified in Oman using a separate method (magnetic susceptibility) to confirm the geochemical data (presence of Iridium in the clay layer at the K-T boundary). This image from a study in Oman shows microspheres ejected from an impact at the K-T boundary. This boundary is found in a stratum designated as Tiwi, which has been exposed near the village of Abat.

The significance here is that these kinds of kinds of particles can only be produced at high temperatures such as those that would be generated by a large meteor impact.



From: The K–T boundary in Oman: identified using magnetic susceptibility field measurements with geochemical confirmation
Brooks B. Ellwooda, , , William D. MacDonaldb, Christopher Wheelera, Stephen L. Benoista

YECs need to explain why no dinosaur fossils are found in strata above a layer of Iridium that has been detected at the K-T boundary in well over 100 studies around the planet. (Motorola named their satellite phone system for this Iridium layer since this phone system covers the whole Earth - almost ).

For those who believe that Jesus may have had a dinosaur for a pet, they also need to explain why no fossils from primates, including humans, are found below, or anywhere near (within about 50 million years of) the K-T boundary layer.

YECers need to explain how the dinosaurs could become extinct and primates could evolve into Noah and Nephi in the 3,400 year interval between the garden of Eden (in Daviss County MO in the New World), and the time that Nephi and his band left Oman to come to - well - the New World.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey DrW!

Thanks for your concern.

No problem!
And thank you for your kind return of banter.

(I have been asleep. As I am posting this, it is just after 5:00 am here.)

Well, as Jimmy Buffett would say........It's 5 O'clock somewhere!

Zee's image of the dinosaur footprints is a great segue to another data set for the YECs to ponder; that of the extinction of the dinosaurs, and pretty much every other large vertebrate on the face of the Earth, at the boundary between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary periods (K-T boundary) about 65 million years ago.

This boundary is marked in the geological record by a thin layer of clay that is rich in the element Iridium, an element especially abundant in many extraterrestrial bodies such as the one that left a large impact crater in the Caribbean 65 million years ago. Since its discovery in the 1980s, there is a growing consensus that an astroid impact in the Caribbean caused a catastrophic drop in temperature because of the material ejected into the atmosphere by the impact. Before this material settled out and blanketed pretty much the entire planet, it caused a lowering of the temperature of the atmosphere the caused rapid extinction of the dinosaurs.



The image below is from the paper cited wherein this K-T boundary layer was identified in Oman using a separate method (magnetic susceptibility) to confirm the geochemical data (presence of Iridium in the clay layer at the K-T boundary). This image from a study in Oman shows microspheres ejected from an impact at the K-T boundary. This boundary is found in a stratum designated as Tiwi, which has been exposed near the village of Abat.



From: The K–T boundary in Oman: identified using magnetic susceptibility field measurements with geochemical confirmation
Brooks B. Ellwooda, , , William D. MacDonaldb, Christopher Wheelera, Stephen L. Benoista

YECs need to explain why no dinosaur fossils are found in strata above a layer of Iridium that has been detected at the K-T boundary in well over 100 studies around the planet. (Motorola named their satellite phone system for since the phone system covers the whole Earth).

For those who believe that Jesus may have had a dinosaur for a pet, they also need to explain why no fossils from primates, including humans, are found below, or anywhere near (within about 60 million years of) the K-T boundary layer.

YECers need to explain how the dinosaurs could become extinct and primates could evolve into Noah and Nephi in the 3,400 year interval between the garden of Eden (in Daviss County MO in the New World), and the time that Nephi and his band left Oman to come to - well - the New World.

WHAT THE ........!

Looking for my dictionary, my thesaurus, and my pill box!

Be back later..........................like way later.

What did I get myself into? (Hey Ceeboo did you happen to notice the freaking "D" and the freaking "R" that are placed neatly before the freaking "W"?)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_DrW]

Ceeboo,

Are you a YEC?

If so, I guess I have missed something along the way here.

Please say it isn't so.

Anyway, long story short: Large meteor hits the Earth 65 million years ago and kicks up a lot of dust, which blocks out sunlight causing the Earths atmospheric temperature to fall and kill the dinosaurs. Said dust carries a distinctive Iridium signature, which can be readily detected 65 million years later when humans have evolved sufficiently to invent the necessary instruments.

According to the definition/explanation of YEC on Conservawiki (as cited in the OP), folks like Little Nipper (where is he anyway?) now need to explain why YEC is the best scientific explanation for this particular data set (long with several more to come).

[_Brackite]

Ceeboo,

Are you a YEC?

...

Congressman Paul Broun is a YEC.

Congressman calls evolution lie from 'pit of hell'

...

ATHENS, Ga. (AP) — Georgia Rep. Paul Broun said in videotaped remarks that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are "lies straight from the pit of hell" meant to convince people that they do not need a savior.

The Republican lawmaker made those comments during a speech Sept. 27 at a sportsman's banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell. Broun, a medical doctor, is running for re-election in November unopposed by Democrats.

"God's word is true," Broun said, according to a video posted on the church's website. "I've come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. And it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior."

Broun also said that he believes the Earth is about 9,000 years old and that it was made in six days. Those beliefs are held by fundamentalist Christians who believe the creation accounts in the Bible to be literally true.

...

Link: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/C ... 924955.php

[_DrW]

Ceeboo,

Are you a YEC?

...

Congressman Paul Broun is a YEC.

Congressman calls evolution lie from 'pit of hell'

...

ATHENS, Ga. (AP) — Georgia Rep. Paul Broun said in videotaped remarks that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are "lies straight from the pit of hell" meant to convince people that they do not need a savior.

The Republican lawmaker made those comments during a speech Sept. 27 at a sportsman's banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell. Broun, a medical doctor, is running for re-election in November unopposed by Democrats.

"God's word is true," Broun said, according to a video posted on the church's website. "I've come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. And it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior."

Broun also said that he believes the Earth is about 9,000 years old and that it was made in six days. Those beliefs are held by fundamentalist Christians who believe the creation accounts in the Bible to be literally true.

...

Link: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/C ... 924955.php

IMHO, there should be minimal competency standards or criteria to qualify one for elected office at the State or Federal level. When filing to run for office, individuals would have to pass this very low bar test, as a part of the filing process. It would be a requirement along with proper residency, citizenship, etc.

YECers would fail in the logic/critical thinking and basic science competency areas and we would not have them making decisions in world where such decisions have increasing impacts on large numbers of people, including people who had no vote in electing these crazies.

Sorry for the derail - now back to waiting for Little Nipper, subgenius, ldsfaqs, whyme, and some of the other true believers to show up and set me straight.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey again DrW

Ceeboo,

Are you a YEC?

The short answer is no, I am not. (perhaps, as this thread evolves (No pun intended ), I will offer a part, or parts of a much longer answer to your question)

by the way, thanks for finally asking me a question that I fully understood so that I could actually answer.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_DrW]

Hey again DrW

Ceeboo,

Are you a YEC?

The short answer is no, I am not. (perhaps, as this thread evolves (No pun intended ), I will offer a part, or parts of a much longer answer to your question)

by the way, thanks for finally asking me a question that I fully understood so that I could actually answer.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Fair enough.

I trust that your answers or partial answers to follow will all be reconcilable with the data from the geological record.

[_ludwigm]

Whoaaa!! Those godless european socalled scientists:

Huge deposit of Jurassic turtle remains found in China (October 29, 2012)
http://phys.org/news/2012-10-huge-depos ... china.html

Here is (ISN'T) their picture about:
[#img] http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/ ... posito.jpg[#/img]

Paleontologists from University of Tübingen and Berlin Natural History Museum can make first statistical analysis of ancient species.
"Bones upon bones, we couldn't believe our eyes," says Oliver Wings, paleontologist and guest researcher at the Museum für Naturkunde in Berlin. He was describing the spectacular find of some 1800 fossilized mesa chelonia turtles from the Jurassic era in China's northwest province of Xinjiang. Wings and the University of Tübingen's fossil turtle specialist, Dr. Walter Joyce, were working with Chinese paleontologists there in 2008. The results of their further work in 2009 and 2011 have just been published in the German journal "Naturwissenschaften." "This site has probably more than doubled the known number of individual turtles from the Jurassic," says Walter Joyce. "Some of the shells were stacked up on top of one another in the rock." It is what paleontologists call a "bone bed" – in this case consisting only of turtle remains. Wings, Joyce and their team have made several expeditions to the arid region since 2007, finding fossil sharks, crocodiles, mammals and several dinosaur skeletons. Today one of the world's driest regions, 160 million years ago Xinjiang was a green place of lakes and rivers, bursting with life. Yet the scientists have shown that even then, conditions were not always ideal, with climate change leading to seasonal drought – and this remarkable fossil find. The turtles had gathered in one of the remaining waterholes during a very dry period, awaiting rain. Today's turtles in Australia for instance do the same thing. But for the Xinjiang turtles, the rain came too late. Many of the turtles were already dead and their bodies rotting. When the water arrived, it came with a vengeance: a river of mud, washing the turtles and sediments along with it and dumping them in one place, as the paleontologists read the site and its layers of stone. The large number of turtles allows the researchers to make a first statistical analysis of Asian turtles in the Jurassic period. Their simultaneous death and preservation makes it possible to compare variability, growth, and morphological differences among the species. The scientists are looking for sponsors to support further field studies and research into the dinosaur finds.
Provided by University of Tübingen

[Guest]

Stromatolites

Stromatolites are formed in shallow water by layered accretion of sediment particles by cyanobacteria, a life form that thrived on the very early Earth. Some of the fossils of the accretionary structures these bacteria create have been shown to be as old as 3.5 billion years. Those fossilized stromatolites found in the Arabian Peninsula, as shown in the image below, are relatively young - only about 555 million years.



Cyanobacteria played an important role in the course of evolution on Earth. Oxygen in the atmosphere today was largely generated by cyanobacteria photosynthesis during the Archaean and Proterozoic periods. Had the cyanobacteria not released oxygen into the atmosphere for millions of years, there would not now be enough free oxygen in the atmosphere today to support human life.

We are fortunate to still have viable colonies of these stromatolite-building cyanobacteria with us today so we can measure their growth rates and the rate at which they release oxygen. They are both very low.

Microfossils of these cyanobacteria can still be found in the stromatolite structures and it is clear that these primitive lifeforms have changed little (or not at all) over hundreds of millions, or billions, of years.

If one wants to see these cyanobacteria hard at work accreting their stromatolites today, they need only travel to Shark Bay in Western Australia. Below is an image of the famous (to geologists and micro biologists, marine biologists and Australians, anyway) stromatolites of Hamelin pool in Shark Bay, Western Australia.



YECs reconciling these structures to Biblical creationism must explain why these fossils in the Arabian Peninsula are found below the K-T boundary in the geological record. (The K-T Boundary is at 65 million years ago and Omani stomatolites are at 555 million years ago.)

YEC Mormons need to explain how all of this happened in the 3,400 years between the Garden of Eden and the Nephites leaving from Oman for the New World.

Had the Nephites actually existed, they may well have walked on these fossils while wandering in the wilderness after beheading poor Laban. Lots of shepherds and goatherds certainly have in the last 15,000 years or so.

_____________________________________

ludwigm,

Thanks for the information on the Jurassic turtles.

Your image is shown below.