Anger, Vitriol, Angst.

[_sock puppet]

Anger can have some great energy and bring about action. Without anger I doubt the Civil Rights Movement would have happened, for example.

And many other inventions of mankind, both in the civil realm and the physical one. Without fear, would we have no defenses and Robin Hooding run rampant, and you'd have stored up no resources to carry you through times when you cannot meet your daily needs?

[_zeezrom]

I would add fear.

zactly.

PS - Shades, did you catch this word? ...ah hah! Nope.

[_SteelHead]

Anger, Vitriol, Angst.

The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

[Guest]

Hi Ceeboo,

It's an interesting question and when I began to consider it I came back to something mentioned already in this thread: maybe how one answers this hinges on whether they believe in evolutionary processes or not? Not to belittle people who don't, but I think it could dramatically affect how a person thinks of primal survival-based emotional responses.

If, for example, I believe that I am made in the image of God but am in a fallen state, it seems I would see this differently than someone who accepts as fact that the emotions identified in the thread title are based on successful characteristics of their ancestors that allowed them to survive and pass on their genes.

What do you think? Does some background explaination need to be included to establish the base from which a person is beginning their exploration of the topic?

For me, I accept the evolutionary explaination as outlined here: http://discovermagazine.com/2010/jan-feb/16-primitive-complicated-essential-emotion-called-fear/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C=

For that reason, I don't know that there IS anything "behind" the vitriol, anger, and fear responses that is more purely "me". That's not to say I think it impossible or undesirable to try and elevate myself above these responses and should more often than I do. But I think there is no "behind" if I understand how you are using that phrase correctly.

But I'd like to know your view on this. It may influence my thoughts.

[_Yoda]

Anger, Vitriol, Angst.

The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Wise words by a wise Jedi!

[Guest]

Hey all, thanks for all the interesting responses/contributions (With the small exception of Toronto's list of questions directed at me. )

Hi Ceeboo,

It's an interesting question and when I began to consider it I came back to something mentioned already in this thread: maybe how one answers this hinges on whether they believe in evolutionary processes or not? Not to belittle people who don't, but I think it could dramatically affect how a person thinks of primal survival-based emotional responses.

Interesting, honor. (I would like to digest this a while but my initial reaction is: although it may very well "affect how a person thinks of primal survival-based emotional responses", the question (as I see it) is does it impact/influence these emotional responses. And, if so, why?

If, for example, I believe that I am made in the image of God but am in a fallen state, it seems I would see this differently than someone who accepts as fact that the emotions identified in the thread title are based on successful characteristics of their ancestors that allowed them to survive and pass on their genes.

Again, I would like to take some time to think about this.

(Thinking to myself) Given examples on this very board: Why do some folks who hold a belief in a Creator display more of these things than others who hold the very same belief?
Likewise: Same for atheists with above?

What do you think? Does some background explaination need to be included to establish the base from which a person is beginning their exploration of the topic?

Perhaps? (I don't know)
Interesting though.

For that reason, I don't know that there IS anything "behind" the vitriol, anger, and fear responses that is more purely "me". That's not to say I think it impossible or undesirable to try and elevate myself above these responses and should more often than I do. But I think there is no "behind" if I understand how you are using that phrase correctly.

No?

Say your wife cheated on you.
You are furious, scared, disappointed, and many other things.
Are these things not rooted in personal and deep hurt, pain, disappointment, fear?

Please note: those are question marks I used to and for discussion/sharing.

But I'd like to know your view on this. It may influence my thoughts.

Look above!

Intersting stuff, honor.
Thanks.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Ceeboo]

Hey JM

I would add fear. In fact, I think fear can be a bigger factor than pain, etc.

Yes, I would agree that fear should have been added (Thanks)

Also, I agree with you that it can (not always though) be a bigger factor.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[Guest]

Interesting, honor. (I would like to digest this a while but my initial reaction is: although it may very well "affect how a person thinks of primal survival-based emotional responses", the question (as I see it) is does it impact/influence these emotional responses. And, if so, why?

<snip>

(Thinking to myself) Given examples on this very board: Why do some folks who hold a belief in a Creator display more of these things than others who hold the very same belief?
Likewise: Same for atheists with above?

<snip>

Say your wife cheated on you.
You are furious, scared, disappointed, and many other things.
Are these things not rooted in personal and deep hurt, pain, disappointment, fear?

I hope you don't mind if I consolidate your post above and my additional thoughts below? And please, take whatever time you need to digest. It's an interesting topic and worth reflection.

Your first question above is interesting: Does a person’s approach or beliefs "impact/influence (the) emotional responses" themselves?

I don't know if there is a significant difference, but I see it this way and maybe you can tell me if it matches up to how you see it:

Based on the current evidence, I believe these emotional responses are very primitive and survival based. They predate the evolution of our higher cognitive abilities by millennia and are very refined because they've worked very well in helping our ancestors (across the interspecies divide) survive to pass on their genes. If I am angered, feel hate, or feel fear it's natural and expected given there must be something in the environment causing this to happen. BUT, and it's a big but, because I recognize that it's primitive I can try to refocus on using higher levels of thought in order to take control of the primitive, if you will, to try and assess how valid the threat really is. Should I really be angry, should I really be feeling aggressive towards someone? Is there really something to fear here? Or is it (for example) just internet stuff and a push of a button from going away?

So in a sense, I think of this as a "vertical" issue: there are higher and lower ways to respond to stimuli and if I try I can occasionally interrupt the primitive process in order to choose a way I think is better. A “more excellent way”, maybe, to use a term from scripture. Or Bill and Teds. :)

That said, I admit that having a religious past has helped create the narrative for what these higher responses should look like and I still fall back on this today. I'm not sure what that means. Serenity in the midst of conflict, integrity in the midst of pressure, seeking the good or godly in the person I am interacting with even if I am feeling angry with them - all of these still have at least some root in my LDS upbringing, though much augmented by study of other religious traditions now. So that leads to interesting questions that I think you posed above as well. Why DO some people with similar backgrounds respond to the same stimuli in different ways? Perhaps it’s because our backgrounds are more diverse than can be synthesized into tidy explanations that fit into nice little boxes? Despite being more atheist than theist today, I think my response is not grounded in pure atheism (whatever that means. Another topic perhaps). When I do better at elevating my thoughts and subsequent action, I think my response to people is grounded in trying to see something divine or love-worthy in others. When I'm less successful, it's usually when I'm most "me" focused in a survival sense. I've given control to the primitive. Does that require religion? I don’t know because I can’t say based on my own life experience.

Thoughts?

[_sock puppet]

Hello folks,

On at least some level, we human beings all seem capable to deliver, partake, and/or practice in these things.

While some tend to display these things more often, in larger doses, and on wider scales, it seems to appear within and around the entire human race (both past and present)

If we were able to be neutral and remove these 'masks', what do you think we would find and/or see beneath them?

Your thoughts/opinions?

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

Back to your OP, without those emotions you would not have a God of the Old Testament and the New Testament one would not be angrily casting money changers out of the temple.

[_Quasimodo]

We would see frailty, insecurity and doubt.

+1! It's all about insecurity. That's why little dogs bark and snarl at big ones.