Kirtland Temple and The Jewish Temple Mount

[_zeezrom]

"The Buraq Wall is located in the Old City of Jerusalem at the foot of the western side of the Temple Mount. It is a remnant of the ancient wall that surrounded the Jewish Temple's courtyard, and is arguably the most sacred site recognized by the Jewish faith outside of the Temple Mount itself." (Wikipedia)

The Kirtland temple is owned by another faith. Mormons can visit the temple as outsiders. They can never perform sacred temple ordinances inside. Someday, they will win back their prize and be allowed to enter, clothed in their sacred temple garments, ready to perform sacred rites.

I just realized that Mormons might be tempted to look at Kirtland the same way Jews look at the Temple Mount. Visiting Kirtland might feel like a prayer at The Buraq Wall. "Someday, God will let us get that temple back. He will take it from the the Community of Christ by force."

Ludwigm, this is for you:

At the Entrance of the Wailing-Wall in Jerusalem by Tivadar Kosztka Csontvary

[_ludwigm]

He painted a lot in Mediterraneum.

If I could walk round half of that places...

[_beefcalf]

I just realized that Mormons might be tempted to look at Kirtland the same way Jews look at the Temple Mount. Visiting Kirtland might feel like a prayer at The Buraq Wall. "Someday, God will let us get that temple back. He will take it from the the Community of Christ by force."

That's an interesting comparison, zeez.

I'd only hafta add that the Jews consider the western wall to be part of their one and only temple, whereas LDS Inc. stamps out Temple after McTemple whenever the tithe-paying saints get bored with their old one (the new temple being built in Gilbert, for example... whassat you say? the Mesa Temple was just too full? Not even.)

[_Albion]

I have been to both. The reality of the Western Wall is that to Jews it represents the temple as it was and as it hopefully will be to them some day. The Kirtland Temple on the other hand bears virtually no resemblance inside to all other Mormon temples. It is a representation of a Mormon temple before Smith progressed in understanding and practice within masonry...a step in a process that continues to change.

[_Fence Sitter]

From an uninformed view there seems to be very little comparison other than the word "temple". A better comparison might be the "Temple Lot" in Missouri, but even then you are comparing thousands of years of belief, tradition and culture to less than 100. The LDS Church stopped emphasizing the return to Zion (Missouri) long ago. Also, modern day LDS do not see their buildings as inherently sacred, they only become so after dedication. The Kirtland temple is a historical curiosity presently.

It would be interesting to see what the stance on Missouri Zion would be were the Church ever to acquire the "Temple Lot".

[_honorentheos]

... LDS Inc. stamps out Temple after McTemple whenever the tithe-paying saints get bored with their old one (the new temple being built in Gilbert, for example... whassat you say? the Mesa Temple was just too full? Not even.)

There is another temple being built in Phoenix, a Mctemple as you properly call them. All within about 30 miles max. of the Mesa temple. I'm not sure that attendance at the temple justifies this though I'm not in position to comment on that.

I do think it accomplishes a couple of other things, though.

First, it conveys the idea the church is growing and keeps the belief alive that the stone cut from the mountain is ever rolling forth.

Second, (and this is admitted just my own reflection on what I see as a local oddity of thinking) it reflects a fact I see here in the Phoenix area - Mesa, just 25 miles or so away from downtown Phoenix, is still seen as a day's journey by wagon.

[_honorentheos]

The Kirtland temple is owned by another faith. Mormons can visit the temple as outsiders. They can never perform sacred temple ordinances inside. Someday, they will win back their prize and be allowed to enter, clothed in their sacred temple garments, ready to perform sacred rites.

I just realized that Mormons might be tempted to look at Kirtland the same way Jews look at the Temple Mount. Visiting Kirtland might feel like a prayer at The Buraq Wall. "Someday, God will let us get that temple back. He will take it from the the Community of Christ by force."

Zeezrom,

Your thoughts are interesting to me in a broad sense. I started thinking about "Zionist" thinking within LDS culture. Are there other sacred spaces than temples that LDS view as under defiling control?

I wonder - could this apply to the "promised land" of the America's? Is the potential election of Romney a step in the direction of redemptions for the land of promise, set aside for those faithful to God but now defiled and desecrated by secular or even Satanic forces?

[_zeezrom]

Honor,

I do think some Mormons consider this election a step toward Zion.

Drifting,

I think Mormons do have sacred objects in their traditions. I think the temples are indeed inherently sacred as are the Egyptian scrolls. I brought up the scrolls just for fun. ;)

[_honorentheos]

Honor,

I do think some Mormons consider this election a step toward Zion.

It seems like it isn't just Mormons, either.

Yesterday on NPR's This American Life among many interesting stories was one of a man who wouldn't give his name because he lives in a small, evangelical Christian town where it is assumed everyone is conservative. But he's not. Red State, Blue State

A quote from the Prologue (about minute 1:00): "It's the sort of town, he says, where most people believe that if America doesn't change it's course, with all of it's abortions and gay marriages, (interviewee speaks), 'either God will destroy America or He will have to reanimate Sodom and Gomorrah and apologize to them.'"

It's interesting to think about: one of the narratives of the Book of Mormon is that God has preserved the America's (and the US is inferred specifically) for His purpose and as a choosen land. And that He destroyed the Nephites because they did not live worthy of the sacred nature of this land.

Mormons love sacred places, with the pagents and "Lands of the Book of Mormon" or "Where Jesus Walked" tours. But I'm not sure Mormons are a "backward" looking people so much as a "pre-destined, we are the chosen" kind of people.

Jewish tradition gets the story of Job in a way you'll never hear taught in an LDS Sunday School. It helps to see the concept of being "Chosen" through the lense of century after century of seeming abandonment by God.

This leads me to think that areas with complicated historic meaning like the Kirkland area might not resonate with your typical Provo-style Mormon. But fighting against corruption and purifying the land of promise? Based on the emails and Facebook posts I get from zealous LDS family it seems this resonated very strongly with them. I'm really not sure how some of them will react if we wake up on Wednesday and are certain of an Obama second term. Even more unsure how they will react if we wake up on Wednesday to Ohio and Florida going into mandatory recounts.

[_Uncle Dale]

"The Buraq Wall is located in the Old City of Jerusalem at the foot of the western side of the Temple Mount. It is a remnant of the ancient wall that surrounded the Jewish Temple's courtyard, and is arguably the most sacred site recognized by the Jewish faith outside of the Temple Mount itself." (Wikipedia)

The Kirtland temple is owned by another faith. Mormons can visit the temple as outsiders. They can never perform sacred temple ordinances inside. Someday, they will win back their prize and be allowed to enter, clothed in their sacred temple garments, ready to perform sacred rites.

I just realized that Mormons might be tempted to look at Kirtland the same way Jews look at the Temple Mount. Visiting Kirtland might feel like a prayer at The Buraq Wall. "Someday, God will let us get that temple back. He will take it from the the Community of Christ by force."

My thoughts on this?

Let the Mormons have the thing -- a useless reminder
of CoC's cultic past.

But, I suppose that CoC retains just enough of
its old cultism mentality to try and hang on to it.

Sad... that sort of attachment to religious idols.

UD