Case No. 20120452 A Must READ (Links)

[_sock puppet]

Just another Question for Sock Puppet and/or lulu

What happens now? Does KM get to reply to the Mormon Church's brief? How long does it take for a State Supreme Court to rule on a case?

In most appellate courts (probably the Utah S Ct too), the appellant (KM) gets a 'reply brief' opportunity. Usually shorter, and supposed to be circumscribed to addressing just matters raised by the respondent (LDS) in its briefing that were not previously mentioned in the appellant's first briefing opportunity.

The reply brief is usually the last briefing opportunity, before oral argument before the appellate panel, where the sitting judges get to interrupt and ask the presenting lawyers questions. I think it is much more interesting actually than trials (as portrayed in Perry Mason). For example, see the movie Reversal of Fortune with Jeremy Irons playing Claus Von Bulow. It demonstrates why appeals are often more intriguing than trials.

[_lulu]

Just another Question for Sock Puppet and/or lulu

What happens now? Does KM get to reply to the Mormon Church's brief? How long does it take for a State Supreme Court to rule on a case?

And a dirty little secret is that (except for the US Supreme Court which finishes its business in June of each year) judges can take as long as they want to rule.

Oh, the stories I could tell.

On the up side, I'd say expect a decision a couple of months after oral argument.

[_The Mighty Builder]

Sock Puppet and lulu. I hate to belabor this thread and asking all kinds of legal questions, but you two seem to understand the legal system and I really want to understand what this case means to the rights of Sex Abuse Victims.

On the Darth J outing post, Pahoran has posted information about the cited case that Darth J asks him where he got the information (a letter of some sort). Are the entire court records available to the public and if so how do you get to see them?

Darth J states that the court records are 4500+ pages long. How would this happen? That seems like a lot of information for a simple he said/she said case.

[_Elphaba]

Sock Puppet and lulu. I hate to belabor this thread and asking all kinds of legal questions, but you two seem to understand the legal system and I really want to understand what this case means to the rights of Sex Abuse Victims.

On the Darth J outing post, Pahoran has posted information about the cited case that Darth J asks him where he got the information (a letter of some sort). Are the entire court records available to the public and if so how do you get to see them?

Darth J states that the court records are 4500+ pages long. How would this happen? That seems like a lot of information for a simple he said/she said case.

Read the story "Hear My Plea," in The City Weekly (link below). The whole story is unimaginably grotesque and heartbreaking, but having read it myself, I can see why the record is so long.

http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article- ... -plea.html

[_sock puppet]

Sock Puppet and lulu. I hate to belabor this thread and asking all kinds of legal questions, but you two seem to understand the legal system and I really want to understand what this case means to the rights of Sex Abuse Victims.

On the Darth J outing post, Pahoran has posted information about the cited case that Darth J asks him where he got the information (a letter of some sort). Are the entire court records available to the public and if so how do you get to see them?

Perhaps. Where the names are known publicly, see the CityWeekly article, then all or most of the court records might not be under seal from public view. However, portions might be sealed. To protect privacy of people involved, but who have done no wrong, like KM, the court might have sealed part of the court's files.

Darth J states that the court records are 4500+ pages long. How would this happen? That seems like a lot of information for a simple he said/she said case.

He said/she said cases, where much is at stake for both or one of the parties, usually involve taking the depositions of many witnesses, to even seemingly tangential issues. I think I read where 16 depositions had been taken.

Then there would be documents produced by LDS Inc to KM's attorneys about the Help Line and the instruction given to bishops in using that Help Line, and what generally to do as bishop when he learns of sex abuse. (I once pursued a case against GM. We asked in discovery for a copy of each manual and instruction given to its area service managers for the prior 15 years--the area service manager whose conduct was in question had been such a manager for the prior 14 years. GM objected, telling the judge that would be 'train car loads' of documents. The judge then pared our request to the prior 5 years. GM's attorney then responded saying there were none. We moved to compel. The judge said unless we had proof that there were any issued by GM in those 5 years, he would not order them. I asked the judge to hold the GM lawyer in contempt, that it was a fantastical claim that the materials in the period 5-15 years back were so voluminous as to be overly burdensome to produce, while in the 0-5 years back, there were none. The judge stubbornly refused.)

Then there are documents prepared to file in court. More at stake, more and longer filings.

[_lulu]

Sock Puppet and lulu. I hate to belabor this thread and asking all kinds of legal questions, but you two seem to understand the legal system and I really want to understand what this case means to the rights of Sex Abuse Victims.

On the Darth J outing post, Pahoran has posted information about the cited case that Darth J asks him where he got the information (a letter of some sort). Are the entire court records available to the public and if so how do you get to see them?

Darth J states that the court records are 4500+ pages long. How would this happen? That seems like a lot of information for a simple he said/she said case.

The general rule is that in a jurisdiction's general trial court (it can go by different names, in UT its call "District Court") all the filed documennts are public. Usually someone has to take additional action if they want something sealed. However, there are some categories of cases that are automaticly sealed, like divorce case.

Almost all of the basic documents in a case get filed with the court and are therefor acessable to the public. The exception to this is the evidence that the attorneys are required to exchange before trial. (When I was a lad, that had to be filed too). Now days, attorneys just exchange that evidence and keep it at their offices until trial or other hearing where the judge needs to know about part of them. This evidence frequently constitutes the most amount of "paper" in a case. The reason its not filed these days is that it is cheaper for the court if it doesn't have to provide space to store such stuff which in the end might not make it before the judge for a wide variety of reasons.

Each jurisdiction makes it own arrangements of how to put court filings online. I'm not sure exactly how it works in UT but here's the link

http://www.utcourts.gov/xchange/?content=what

[_The Mighty Builder]

Topping for I really desire all to receive.

[_The Mighty Builder]

Topping for I really desire all to receive.

[_Nomomo]

I believe his position is that he never talked to her.

The article in the Salt Lake City Weekly put it that he was claiming to not remember talking to her. There is a huge difference between saying he never talked to her and saying he doesn't "remember" talking to her. In the first case if he flat it denies it happened we don't really know if he talked to her or not without any evidence that he did. In the second case if he is just saying he "doesn't remember" talking to her we can pretty much assume he is lying his ass off.

[_The Mighty Builder]

If you go to the Court Docket for this Case it states that KM has until 28 Nov 2012 to file a reply to the Mormon Church's brief. I wonder if her lawyer is going to file a reply or if he thinks he has enough in his initial brief.