WE Worship Jesus and have Personal Relationship

[_Gaia]

Well, there's (another) problem understanding this -

It's the (LDS) doctrine of the "Indwelling" (of the Spirit) --

To understand a LOT of things about (the LDS idea of ) God and Christ (as well as their relationship), it's essential to remember that in LDS doctrine, only PART of God's nature is anything like us. He has a physical nature like we do, but He also has a DIVINE nature , which is very much UNlike us (at this point in our eternal development).

THE DIVINE NATURE:

Scripture (2 Peter 1:3-4) says:
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue : Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature..."

So what exactly is this "Divine Nature"???
In addition to His physical, corporeal nature, God also possesses what the scriptures and LDS doctrine refer to as a "Divine Nature". Joseph Smith described this dual nature of celestial life in reporting a divine manifestation that he and others were given in January, 1836:

"The heavens were opened upon us and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out cannot tell. I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire; also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son."

Elsewhere, Joseph taught that God "dwells in everlasting burnings" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 326, 367.)

-Obviously, we're talking about something very UNLIKE us, or anything with which we are acquainted.

“….. the Holy Spirit is centered in God and constitutes His glory. As a pure and highly capacitated substance, the Holy Spirit partakes of the intelligence of God and is the agent by which divine truth, light, and power are manifested to others. But God's glory, or His Holy Spirit, is not separate from Himself. As part of His total organized being, it constitutes His divine nature by which He is an infinitely spiritual, as well as a corporeal, being."
(Hyrum L. Andrus, “God, Man, and the Universe” [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1968], 121.)

Man is in the presence of God when he is enveloped in the glory of God and is quickened by that substance -- and it is a "substance", not just "warm fuzzies". "On such occasions he may or may not be in the presence of God's person. But he is in the presence of God in sense of divine communion when he is enveloped in the glory of God." [Ibid]

For example, in the Pearl of Great Price (PGP) Moses 1:
"And the glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence."

One way to understand this is to consider a magnet: A magnet is a tangible object whose magnetic properties extend beyond its physical dimensions to permeate its magnetic field.
Similarly, God is an immanent being who is (as D&C 88 tells us) "in and through all things" by the manifestation of His glory. His glory is as much a part of Him as magnetic properties or forces are essential parts of a magnet. Just as a magnet would not BE a magnet without its special magnetic properties, so God would not BE God without his Divine Nature.

By means of His divine nature, the Father has a relationship with the cosmos that a mere corporeal being (as we are currently) does not possess; nor can an un-glorified being easily comprehend it. This, i think, is one of the reasons many people (even LDS) fail to comprehend many important LDS doctrines -- they think of God as being "just like us", and they fail to take into account His Divine Nature.

Because the Father extends His glory -— His divine intelligence and power -— beyond the limits of His body to "fill the immensity of space" (D&C 88:12) , the organized cosmos becomes His tabernacle -— the extended body of the divine powers of truth, light, and life that emanate from Him. For this reason, Joseph Smith referred to the elements as being the repository "in which dwells all the glory" of God.

Worship of a personal, corporeal God is thus combined (in LDS thought) with a realistic concept of the *immanence* of divinity within all things. "The elements are the tabernacle of God," a revelation declared -- "yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples." (D&C 93:35)

Thus, LDS thought *resolves* the (seeming) philosophical dilemma / contradiction of a personal God having a physical, corporeal nature, who is simultaneously "in and through all things" and omnipresent.

Another revelation concerning the immanence of deity within all things (D&C 88) says:
"He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever. . . .
Behold, all these are kingdoms [of organized life in the cosmos], and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power. I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended."

THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE FATHER AND SON:
Thus, to reiterate -- as a glorified being, The Father has a relationship with the universe that mere corporeal beings do not and cannot have, and which they cannot easily understand or appreciate.
And, the same may be said of the divine relationship that exists between the Father and the Son. In his testimony of Christ, John mentioned the divine relationship that came to exist when Christ received the fullness of the Father, saying of Jesus: "And the glory of the Father was with him, for he [i.e., the Father] dwelt in him." (D&C 93:12)

There is an "INDWELLING" relationship that exists between the Father and Son, which is not always understood even by many LDS.

Of this "indwelling" relationship Jesus bore testimony to the Nephites, stating: "I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)

Only by understanding this divine indwelling relationship can one comprehend Joseph Smith's concept of deity.

In his Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith stressed that the full intelligence and power of the Father are centered in the Son so that both divine beings possess:
"...the same divine mind, the same wisdom, glory, power, and fullness -— filling all in all; the SON being filled with the fullness of the mind, glory, and power ; or, in other words, the Spirit, glory, and power , of the Father, possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom, sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father, mediator for man, being filled with the fullness of the mind of the Father ; or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father."

BYU Religion Professor Emeritus Hyrum L Andrus explains thusly:
"The word "mind," as used by the Prophet in the above statement is equated with the word. "Spirit." Thus, the "mind of the Father" is made synonymous with the "Spirit of the Father," and refers to the quickening intelligence, or Spirit that is extended from the Father and developed in its fullness in the Son. Thereby the Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father. And since the fullness of the Father's glory (or divine intelligence), with all its divine attributes of life and power, dwells in Christ, the Son possesses the same divine mind or Holy Spirit as the Father."
(Hyrum L. Andrus, God, Man, and the Universe [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1968], 128.)

Thus could John write:
"And I, John, bear record that he received a fullness of the glory of the Father; And he received all power both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him." (D&C 93)

This relationship might be somewhat analogous to a powerful electrical circuit, with the electricity passing without restriction from one pole or center of power to another, and back again. "But in the case of these two glorified beings, the indwelling substance consists of the Holy Spirit which centers initially in the Father, and constitutes the power of life, light, truth, or Spirit that emanates from God as a glorified being to fill the immensity of space. Being centered initially in the Father, the Holy Spirit is developed in the Son to quicken and endow the Son with the "mind, glory, and power" of the Father, and to give the Son all power in heaven and on earth. Thereby, the two glorified beings are united in one, each possessing the same indwelling Spirit or divine mind as the other."
(Ibid)
It's important to understand that Christ does *not* lose His personal identity or will in this "indwelling" relationship, for the basic nature of the divine intelligence with which He is endowed prevents that. And as Joseph Smith taught, "all truth is independent within the sphere of its existence, as all intelligence also; otherwise there can be no existence." (D&C 93:30)

“The acquisition of truth and light, or of divine intelligence, leads to independence; and in receiving a fullness of the Father's glory, the Son thus became an independent being possessing all intelligence and power within the Father's kingdom. In addition, the natural affinity that light has to light and that truth has to truth promotes union between the Father and the Son, making them perfectly ONE.” (Ibid)

Both independence and union (rather than domination) are thus achieved. The Father and the Son possess two independent wills. As BYU Professor of Religion James R. Harris, wrote in BYU Studies:
"Thus, through the indwelling divine Spirit, Christ enjoys a perfect union with the Eternal Father of our spirits. ….This communion of the Gods (with which our God, Jesus the Christ, is in perfect union), constitutes a "storehouse" of knowledge and power from which, as a faithful steward of the Gods, Christ may and does constantly and instantly draw."
(“Eternal Progression and the Foreknowledge of God” by James R. Harris BYU Studies, vol. 8 (1967-1968), Number 1 - Autumn 1967 45.)

THE GOSPEL PLAN:

Understanding this "Indwelling" relationship between the Father and the Son, we are finally prepared to understand the ultimate Gospel objective for ALL -- to extend this "Indwelling Relationship” to each of us, as we are willing and able to receive it.

"In the great plan of life, man may be glorified in Christ as He has been glorified in the Father, Elohim. A similar relationship in glory as that which exists between the Man of Holiness and Christ will then exist between Christ and man. Jesus therefore explained in a revelation given through Joseph Smith to the Saints: "If you keep my commandments you shall receive of his [i.e., the Father's] fullness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father." (D&C 93:20)
(Hyrum L. Andrus, “God, Man, and the Universe” [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1968], 207.)

THIS is what the scriptures are referring to when they say (Philippians 2:5-6) -
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God..."

One of the best, most impressive examples of this “Indwelling Relationship” extended to those with the Testimony of Jesus, is recorded in the last book of the New Testament, in John’s vision on the Isle of Patmos. John records (Revelation 22) that “an angel” reveals these things to him, and he is so overcome, that he falls down to “worship at the feet of the angel” --
but “the Angel” forbids him:
(Revelation 22:8-13.)

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Yet just two verses later, this “Angel” speaks as Christ:

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


Thus, the LDS idea of the unity that exists among the Gods -- and those who who are exalted -- is much greater than just "agreeing in purpose" -- it is no less than to have the MIND of GOD, yet retain (and contribute!) our own individuality –

And then – Yes, there’s yet more! – Those who are so justified, sanctified and glorified, are to begin extending what they have received and enjoy from Christ, to others – beginning with their own children, and then moving outward. This is what it means to become a “Priest or Priestess” in the Kingdom of God. [A “King” or “Queen” is one who extends temporal blessings to others; a “Priest” or “Priestess” is one who extends spiritual blessings to others.]

SOME REFERENCES on PRIESTS AND PRIESTESSES:
It was on this basis that Paul would refer to his readers (in Hebrews 3:1) as,
holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling.
(Hebrews 5:1-10.)
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
....4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.


To return to the subject of this thread -
Because many scriptures refer to this "Indwelling Relationship" between Jesus and the Father, they do speak of "worshipping" Christ -- but ultimately, i think it's the Father IN Christ,and Christ AS our Father (of the Spiritual Rebirth) that we "worship".


I hope someone finds this helpful/ interesting --

Blessings to All --
~Gaia

[_moksha]

Great to see you posting again Gaia.

[_Mittens]

http://youtu.be/DdQ79-GBRi4 TRUE WORSHIP

[_Mittens]

http://youtu.be/XBhrygjDJ7M

[_The Erotic Apologist]

WE Worship Jesus and have Personal Relationship

Sorry, but that is quite impossible. One cannot draw near to God unless one correctly performs Namaskar. Only through the correct execution of Namaskar can one commune with God.

It says so in the sacred scrolls...therefore it must be true.

[_LittleNipper]

WE Worship Jesus and have Personal Relationship

Sorry, but that is quite impossible. One cannot draw near to God unless one correctly performs Namaskar. Only through the correct execution of Namaskar can one commune with God.

It says so in the sacred scrolls...therefore it must be true.

Did God write these scrolls? Praying in a particular position so that God can listen to one's prayer is a work of the flesh. God is above our works.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Did God write these scrolls? Praying in a particular position so that God can listen to one's prayer is a work of the flesh. God is above our works.

So glad you asked. We may rest assured the Sacred Scrolls were written by God because the Scrolls state very plainly that this indeed is the case.

Moreover, the Sacred Scrolls warn us to be wary of those who would presume to question their divine authenticity. Those who question the authenticity of the Scrolls are possessed by Rocksasha demons, and will be reincarnated as parameciums in their next life.

So say the Sacred Scrolls. Therefore it must be true.

M'narrah.

[_LittleNipper]

Did God write these scrolls? Praying in a particular position so that God can listen to one's prayer is a work of the flesh. God is above our works.

So glad you asked. We may rest assured the Sacred Scrolls were written by God because the Scrolls state very plainly that this indeed is the case.

Moreover, the Sacred Scrolls warn us to be wary of those who would presume to question their divine authenticity. Those who question the authenticity of the Scrolls are possessed by Rocksasha demons, and will be reincarnated as parameciums in their next life.

So say the Sacred Scrolls. Therefore it must be true.

M'narrah.

And do these so called Sacred Scrolls contradict the Bible in anyway? We already know that that the Bible is true because the Messiah has come and the nation of Israel is still center stage in world affairs --- just as predicted by the Bible thousands of years ago.

[_RockSlider]

http://youtu.be/DdQ79-GBRi4

wow ... very nice

[_The Erotic Apologist]

And do these so called Sacred Scrolls contradict the Bible in anyway? We already know that that the Bible is true because the Messiah has come and the nation of Israel is still center stage in world affairs --- just as predicted by the Bible thousands of years ago.

Your perspective is skewed, little one. You should not be asking whether the Sacred Scrolls contradict your Bible, but whether your Bible contradicts the Sacred Scrolls. We know the Sacred Scrolls are true because A) they say that are true, and B) they predicted the Bible.

M'narrah.