DCP 'admonishes' BYU in his blog

[_Droopy]

And come now, Bradford's little coup d'état at NAMI does, after all, represent the triumph of a secularizing, politically correct cleansing mentality at work at BYU with regard to the apologetic project, a project, it must be remembered, openly approved and wished well be several prominent Church leaders - including Gordon B. Hinckley.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Speaking of cultural Marxists...

http://imgur.com/a/bX4TQ

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Droopy]

Speaking of cultural Marxists...

http://imgur.com/a/bX4TQ

V/R
Dr. Cam

How much time are spending at Infowars.com, Cam?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Speaking of cultural Marxists...

http://imgur.com/a/bX4TQ

V/R
Dr. Cam

How much time are spending at Infowars.com, Cam?

I don't know what that is, Mr. Droopy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... _communism

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Bob Loblaw]

I think this, coming from a cultural Marxist who's intellectual life's work and entire belief system is grounded and invested in, not only the extinction of the Church and of religion qua religion, but of western civilization in depth relative to its classical liberal and Judeo-Christian foundations, is a bit disingenuous (kudos to the Church's "strength"), to say the least.

So, now you're doing self-parody qua self-parody? I'd ask you why you think Blixa wants to extinguish the church and Western civilization, but then there's not really any point.

Once the constitution, limited, constitutional government, federalism, the 10th Amendment, and free-market economic relations are finally crushed and the progressive paradigm much more fully implemented, the Church and its remaining faithful Saints will, at that point, have to separate themselves fully from the wicked, physically enter and gather within Zion communities, and, in essence, secede from the disintegrating secular culture around them.

This is much funnier when you imagine it in Franz Liebkind's voice.

Holland is correct, on many counts. This last election has unambiguously demonstrated the truth that it only takes a generation to snuff out the light of liberty and limited, agency-based constitutional government for an entire society once grounded in liberal democratic principles, and the same is true for the Church. The Book of Mormon attests to the rapidity with which a culture can deteriorate, the Church fray and weaken, the prophets be "cast out" from among a people, and civilization unravel.

We lost an election, not our democratic republic. Rather than whine about how evil the country has become, maybe you should help us work harder to promote our philosophy and candidates who support it. This weeping and wailing and gnashing teeth over a single election loss (by 2%, no less) is silly.

[_Fence Sitter]

We lost an election, not our democratic republic. Rather than whine about how evil the country has become, maybe you should help us work harder to promote our philosophy and candidates who support it. This weeping and wailing and gnashing teeth over a single election loss (by 2%, no less) is silly.

When prop 8 passed in Ca, many people were saying that the "majority had spoken" and the rest should just accept it. (It passed by a very similar margin.)
Pot meet kettle.

[_Bob Loblaw]

When prop 8 passed in Ca, many people were saying that the "majority had spoken" and the rest should just accept it. (It passed by a very similar margin.)
Pot meet kettle.

Yup.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Does it mean he'll be free of LDS orthodoxy?

Which you no doubt think is a bad thing ("LDS orthodoxy"). It's just that you loathe "Mopologists" more than you loathe "LDS orthodoxy", which is precisely the point I made in my previous post.

Yes, that's true: I do think that Mopologetics is way worse than "LDS orthodoxy."

??? I don't know what you're talking about. I was just "observing" that DCP's post was--politically speaking--probably ill-advised. I mean, what do you want to bet that some of the folks over at Religious Education have interpreted what he said in exactly the ways I specified above?

I don't "bet" where evidence can be provided. And that's your problem, Scratch; you are more than willing to read minds, motives, or think that you can.

And your evidence is what, exactly? In any case, I think that Droopy did a fine job of illustrating my point. Per him, Gerald Bradford is a "fifth column"-type "liberal" who's seeking to destroy the Church--in otherwords, he and his ilk are the ones who are drifting towards "apostasy." And that's the basic problem, isn't it? The Mopologists attack Rodney Meldrum, Laura Compton and others as being "too liberal" (or whatever--choose your epithet); the conservative Religious Education folks quietly assess Dan Peterson and Bill Hamblin as being "too liberal"; and so on. As I recall, you yourself said something to the effect that David Twede should "clear out" because having him as a member would completely warp what it means to be "Mormon."

But I'm just speculating. Clearly, the real power is flowing beneath all these observations like a silent undercurrent. You can tell which way it's flowing based on certain things that happen up here on the surface, though: e.g., Twede's disciplinary hearing getting canceled, or DCP resigning from the editorship of the Review. Hugh Nibley may very well have felt similar to Prof. P., but the fact remains that Nibley was never shown the door like this. So who is it that's calling the shots, then, Ray?

[_RayAgostini]

As I recall, you yourself said something to the effect that David Twede should "clear out" because having him as a member would completely warp what it means to be "Mormon."

Well, he cleared out, apparently of his own will and agency, so maybe you can ask him why he felt this was necessary.

David Twede, Blogger, Resigns From Mormon Faith:

As Twede wrote in an email to the Salt Lake Tribune: "While I’ve been in serious doubt about the veracity of LDS claims for some time, I had become so disillusioned with how my situation was handled that I just wanted to be free."

Disillusioned at what, that LDS leaders felt he was running an anti-Mormon website designed to influence Church members to very negative interpretations of Joseph Smith and the founding of Mormonism? With the intent that they would give up their "literal beliefs" about Mormonism? So he was frustrated that the leaders would not listen, and not give his version of "all things LDS" the ratification it deserved - at least in his mind? This is Twede's version of "Jesus was only a good man, nothing more nor less". And though Joseph was "a genius", he was most definitely also a "false" prophet!

Crossan, incidentally, doesn't believe in the resurrection, the supernatural, nor life after death, nor that humans have spirits. Read his book, Who Is Jesus?: Answers to Your Questions about the Historical Jesus, if you want clarification of this.

These secular versions and interpretations of Jesus naturally trickle down to unbelievers like Twede, who accept them without any question. Did the Church leaders see this? They did, and they were fully justified in their ecclesiastical rights to cut off a person who they believe was seriously undermining faith, based on "secular dogma".

Maybe Twede "wanted a place in Mormonism", and to feel welcomed and accepted on some kind of social level completely foreign to the "bizzare supernatural claims" of Mormonism, and that seems to have been the aim of his website, to "rationally" "inform Mormons" that Korihor was right! He wanted Mormonism to adapt to his "social gospel", and when that didn't work - he fell on his own sword.

But I'm just speculating.

Which is what you always do, and have always done!

Clearly, the real power is flowing beneath all these observations like a silent undercurrent. You can tell which way it's flowing based on certain things that happen up here on the surface, though: e.g., Twede's disciplinary hearing getting canceled, or DCP resigning from the editorship of the Review. Hugh Nibley may very well have felt similar to Prof. P., but the fact remains that Nibley was never shown the door like this. So who is it that's calling the shots, then, Ray?

As an unbeliever and skeptic, for a long time now, I know which way you want the Church to go, but don't let your wishful fantasies overtake reality. And that's why people like Twede will continue to face the reality that the Church will ever oppose those who try to rationalise Mormonism into nothing more than some kind of "good society", and the "best brotherhood anywhere", and nothing more than that.

[_Chap]

[quote=Doctor Scratch]But I'm just speculating.

Which is what you always do, and have always done! [/quote]

The point is, of course, that Dr Scratch's speculations often seem to be verified by events. That's what makes his posts worth reading.

On the rest of RayA's post - I really do wonder why he is not an active member of the body he admires so much.