Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

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_huckelberry
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _huckelberry »

Tobin wrote:Hamas has been spending years surrounding Israel by 10's of thousands of rockets and long range mortars. Israel knows this too. I don't see an apolcalypic result from this, but there is always the danger of an over-reaction by both sides. If Israel occupies Gaza, Hamas will likely use everything they have on Israel. In return, Israel may have to extensively bomb or invade southern Lebanon as well and this won't go over well in the Arab world.

Personally, I'd love to see the Israelis leave Israel. The demographics are against them and it is so lopsided that one day the Arab world will just wipe them out. The resulting nuclear holocaust won't be pleasant and it would in everyone's best interest to just give them all of North Dakota. Nobody would fight them over it.


North Dakota? I think you are right that people would not fight them for it but how would you talk people into moving there?
_honorentheos
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _honorentheos »

huckelberry wrote:
Tobin wrote:Hamas has been spending years surrounding Israel by 10's of thousands of rockets and long range mortars. Israel knows this too. I don't see an apolcalypic result from this, but there is always the danger of an over-reaction by both sides. If Israel occupies Gaza, Hamas will likely use everything they have on Israel. In return, Israel may have to extensively bomb or invade southern Lebanon as well and this won't go over well in the Arab world.

Personally, I'd love to see the Israelis leave Israel. The demographics are against them and it is so lopsided that one day the Arab world will just wipe them out. The resulting nuclear holocaust won't be pleasant and it would in everyone's best interest to just give them all of North Dakota. Nobody would fight them over it.


North Dakota? I think you are right that people would not fight them for it but how would you talk people into moving there?

Energy money.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_huckelberry
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _huckelberry »

honorentheos wrote: do you see anything significant in current events that is foreshadowing some cosmic shake-up of the status quo?

And second, is it wrong for humans to try and change events if doing so might postpone the second coming (if you're inclined to believe in such)?


I am not finding anything in my Christian beliefs which would clarify what action would postpone or hasten the second coming. I do not believe the event is connected with horrid destruction. It will be a blessing. I understand the book of revelations images of destruction to be referencing the problems we have lived through for the past two thousand years.

But there are many sources for the image of worldwide destruction. There is a rock in space aiming at a close encounter with our planet. All respectable sources I have read have scientists calculating a clear miss. My brother has voiced suspicions of a white wash. If not a miss,it would be one sort of the end of the world. It would not be magical. Scientifically that event does happen just not frequently. Its destructive potential, varying with the size of the rock, could be immense.

I was watching the pbs presentation on Dust Bowl last night. I was surprised by the frequented expression, "it is the end of the world". These people knew Christian folklore images but I think the gut reaction, this is the end of the world, came from fear and darkness at hand. I was thinking about that emotional reaction today. It is a dark November day with a wind rising and leaves racing up the street. I was remembering my encounter with Mt St Helens eruption. I was 200 miles down wind and obviously safe. I went to a hill top to observe expecting to see a cloud on the horizon from the eruption. Instead I saw what looked like the Missouri river in flood upside down in the sky. Drawn behind the flood was a curtain of black engulfing the entire west. My hair stood on end and I could not suppress the feeling . My God, It is the end of the world!
I;28
"Woe to that wreath, the pride of Ephraim drunkards,
to the fading flower his glorious beauty
set on the head of a fertile valley
to that city the pride of those laid low by wine.
see, the Lord has one who is powerful and strong.
Like a hailstorm and a destructive wind.
Like a driving rain and a flooding downpour.
he wil throw it forcefully to the ground,
that wreath, the pride of Ephraim's drunkards."

In the Bible the images of the end of the world start with defeat in war and captivity. It is something with both creative and destructive potential. It is an image which does not get used up in one instance, but looks for new meaning in new events.

So what marvels or recreations can be possible to fill that ambiguous image, end of the world?
_huckelberry
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _huckelberry »

honorentheos wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
North Dakota? I think you are right that people would not fight them for it but how would you talk people into moving there?

Energy money.


Well that is a change in reality which slipped my mind. But still, how long will the boom make up for the serious limitations? It still has no sea access, long distance to the rest of the world. flat and cold.
_Tobin
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _Tobin »

huckelberry wrote:
honorentheos wrote:Energy money.


Well that is a change in reality which slipped my mind. But still, how long will the boom make up for the serious limitations? It still has no sea access, long distance to the rest of the world. flat and cold.


Sounds perfect. Like I said, nobody would fight them for it. We could even setup a Wailing Wall attraction in a minature golf course and we'd be all set. That would definitely sell it, plus no Hamas rockets anywhere nearby.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Franktalk
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _Franktalk »

The Jews being in Israelis is a thorn in the side of the world. The world will hate it and act accordingly. It is an obvious dividing rod able to cut through all of the fluff of the world to expose the underbelly of man and his devotion to God or his devotion to the world. Those who wish the Jews to leave Israel do not understand the relationship between God and the Jews or they are of the world and act against God. I take the position that God is using the Jews as an example for the world. One day the entire region will attack Israel all at once. This is clearly spoken of in the Bible. Israel will suffer but the attacking armies will be wiped out. I believe this will usher in the tribulation period. It seems that this may be on the doorstep. But probably not. Turkey needs to fall some more and the signs of the end have not happened yet. So I suspect a minor war in which nothing is settled. You will know the time is close when you read of a world wide famine that kills a billion or so. The food wars are coming and it is my belief they happen first. But the events will happen as they happen. My interpretation of these events may be in error.
_Chap
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _Chap »

Franktalk wrote: ... My interpretation of these events may be in error.


Why did you have to go and spoil it all like that, just when I was getting really interested?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Franktalk
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _Franktalk »

Chap wrote:Why did you have to go and spoil it all like that, just when I was getting really interested?


The history of man is filled with error. Why would I think of myself as perfect? I am in this weak vessel and suffer the same as all men. I may search a matter out but unless I am told by a reliable messenger I must assume my own conclusions are only as good as the weak mind.

The falling away of the world is pretty plain to see. But for some the falling away is a good thing. There will be Biblical scale events in the future but they will appear to be natural so all will be able to believe what they wish. In the mist of great signs the falling away will become hardened and sure.
_Chap
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _Chap »

Franktalk wrote: ... I may search a matter out but unless I am told by a reliable messenger I must assume my own conclusions are only as good as the weak mind....


And there is the problem: it is your 'weak mind' that has to make the decision whether the messenger is reliable or not. So you may easily decide wrong. Since many of the human race are following radically different messengers with incompatible messages, then even if just one of those messengers is the right one, we have to accept that most of the human race are getting it wrong.

And that could include you.

The difference between you and me is that you (like so many other people) are sure you have found the right messenger. I think it more likely that all of them are more or less retailing stuff that they or they predecessors have just made up.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_harmony
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Re: Apocalyptic worldviews and current events

Post by _harmony »

Franktalk wrote: The food wars are coming and it is my belief they happen first.


What exactly is a food war?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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