For former Mormons who became atheists
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Has anybody ever commented on the parallels between Job and the story of the Great Flood? The Great Flood came about because god's first batch of kids turned out bad, so he got rid of them by drowning them. Job's first batch of kids also turned out bad (according to Sub-genre), at which point god does Job a favor by slaughtering them, because it would have been a sin if Job had done the dirty deed himself. Thanks, god.
How do we know the Book of Job isn't in reality a horror story about a man who snuffs his own family?
How do we know the Book of Job isn't in reality a horror story about a man who snuffs his own family?
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
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I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
The Erotic Apologist wrote:Brad Hudson wrote:Just for clarification so I understand your argument: Are you saying that the terms good and evil simply don't apply to God? That whatever god does is good by the simple fact that he does it? That an act that, in isolation might appear evil, is in fact good because god acts out of love?
That's certainly my impression...god slaughters and torments his children because he loves them, because he wants them to be with him in paradise.
/gag
I dunno. That's why I asked.
My own opinion is that Epicurus's quatrain (?) is a handy tool for framing up a discussion of the problem of evil. But I see it as a launching pad -- not some sort of refutation of the existence of a god worthy of worship.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
The Erotic Apologist wrote:Has anybody ever commented on the parallels between Job and the story of the Great Flood? The Great Flood came about because god's first batch of kids turned out bad, so he got rid of them by drowning them. Job's first batch of kids also turned out bad (according to Sub-genre), at which point god does Job a favor by slaughtering them, because it would have been a sin if Job had done the dirty deed himself. Thanks, god.
How do we know the Book of Job isn't in reality a horror story about a man who snuffs his own family?
I don't think the parallels are significant. I see Job as being a story that addresses why bad things happen to good people. The flood is about bad things happening to bad people.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Brad Hudson wrote:I dunno. That's why I asked.
My own opinion is that Epicurus's quatrain (?) is a handy tool for framing up a discussion of the problem of evil. But I see it as a launching pad -- not some sort of refutation of the existence of a god worthy of worship.
That's just my opinion, of course. Your average Christian certainly doesn't believe in this kind of god, though it's clear to me that some of them do, even though they try to sugar-coat it with a lot of talk about "love" and "sacrifice".
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
The Erotic Apologist wrote:Brad Hudson wrote:I dunno. That's why I asked.
My own opinion is that Epicurus's quatrain (?) is a handy tool for framing up a discussion of the problem of evil. But I see it as a launching pad -- not some sort of refutation of the existence of a god worthy of worship.
That's just my opinion, of course. Your average Christian certainly doesn't believe in this kind of god, though it's clear to me that some of them do, even though they try to sugar-coat it with a lot of talk about "love" and "sacrifice".
I think the average Christian does. The average Christian simply trusts that God knows what he is doing and that, no matter how evil an act may appear to us, God has a sufficient reason. I think of it as more of a suspension of judgment than anything else.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Brad Hudson wrote:I don't think the parallels are significant. I see Job as being a story that addresses why bad things happen to good people. The flood is about bad things happening to bad people.
Yes, that's certainly what's happening in the foreground. To me, it's like the A-story and the B-story in an episode of a TV sitcom. Job would be the A-story; his rotten, murdered kids would be the B-story.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:07 pm
Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Brad Hudson wrote:I think the average Christian does. The average Christian simply trusts that God knows what he is doing and that, no matter how evil an act may appear to us, God has a sufficient reason. I think of it as more of a suspension of judgment than anything else.
You may be right. The Old Testament is to traditional Christianity what polygamy is to mainstream Mormons.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
--Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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- Posts: 10274
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm
Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
The Erotic Apologist wrote:Brad Hudson wrote:I don't think the parallels are significant. I see Job as being a story that addresses why bad things happen to good people. The flood is about bad things happening to bad people.
Yes, that's certainly what happening in the foreground. To me, it's like the A-story and the B-story in a TV sitcom. Job would be the A-story; his rotten, murdered kids would be the B-story.
Got it.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:No worries then. I'll just group you with all Christians since that's the ideology with which you identify. Thanks for the clarification!
you are welcome - apparently you needed it.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I just want to capture this for the record that all Christians are psychopaths who believe it's OK to murder another man's children if they're perceived as not being faithful to their god, AND that it's OK for their god to create Evil, conspire with it, and give the green light to have another man's children murdered as an ego test.
capture what? your own ill-conceived conclusions and suppositions?
no one said that people could perform such acts...you have, and still, claim that God's actions were a murder...clearly they are not. How this justifies any act of a psychopath must be reserved for whatever logic you are subscribing to....stay on topic!
whatever, drivel you are trying to pass off here is simply just drivel, and serves only to accentuate how ill qualified your posts have been to consider this topic with any reason or sense. Perhaps you should resign to just posting cursory knowledge stuff and clever memes.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:To the OP, if you ever wonder why I reject the basic premise of a faith-based ideology you have exhibit #1 right here for your consideration.
Shame on you Sub-Genius, and your fellow Christians.
shame? you are in no logical or reasonable position to discuss shame. And for the record, i have never "wondered why", no more than i ever wonder why a baby has growing pains.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Well, clearly you and your fellow Christians are blood-thirsty psychopaths who are incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong. It's wrong to create Evile. It's wrong to collaborate with Evil. And it's wrong to murder another man's children if you disagree with their basic characteristics.
Currently you are the only person who has 'created evil', so i agree...you are wrong.
Obviously having no understanding of the scriptures and of God or of Satan puts you at a distinct disadvantage in this discussion. But do not fret, you will learn more - it is inevitable from your position.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Shame on you. Shame. On. You. You're disgusting for defending this vile behavior. You cast shame on all your fellow Christians, too.
yes, when you are helpless against the message...attack the messenger....textbook your posts are.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
:facepalm:

Nice translation for "evil" in that verse...however, if you actually study the scriptures (even just a little), instead of cherry-pick from a Google search, you will know that the evil spoken of in that verse is not the moral evil - not sin, it is "correctly translated" and understood as the evil of punishment NOT the evil of sin - It is calamity and such. So, once again we see your cursory view betray your nefarious goal. (your bait and switch merely exposes your position further as being weak and uninformed).
Why do atheists insist that they "know" the scriptures better? when they time and time again display little aptitude for them at all.
Perhaps i should clarify my position, as noted before as being a "different discussion". God is subject to the Law, in other words God can not lie...can not be unjust, etc... But you ask "how can He be so mean to me?"...the key is in that question...."to me". For you to desire casting the "blame" and the "judgment" on to God is your largest, and perhaps most fatal, flaw and misconception. All you have effectively done so far is exclaim that it is you that should determine what is good and what is evil, not God - and that it is you that should pass judgment not God - and that, my friend, makes you closer to being the psychopath.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Don't you mean justifiably murdered? This is why Christians get no quarter when it comes to your claims of morality. You actually believe people should be killed if they don't meet your nonsensical standards of conduct. That's frightening.
actually, once again, you have it wrong. I consider God's ability to "save" or "not save" a person based on His standards not mine.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:FTFY. I posted on a thread dedicated to former Mormons who became Atheists. by the way, are you a Mormon?
what difference does me being a Mormon make? are you hoping to deflect the obvious beat-down you are currently receiving? <----the bait
just because the thread is about atheists does not absolve you of my charge....if a liquor store offered a special whiskey named "Nephi Courage" that would hardly justify me buying it and drinking it.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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Re: For former Mormons who became atheists
Again, for clarification, what is this "Law" that God is subject to? Can we look it up?God is subject to the Law, in other words God can not lie...can not be unjust, etc...
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951