Ex-LDS Mother Responds to the Shootings

[_Uther]

I think the part where media serves tearfilled grievers to the watching crowd is a very difficult ethical situation. I don't think someone in an early shock and grief situation is the right person in front of the camera, unless one wants to document chaos.

But in this case the bereaved parent's response was dignified and rational. I suspect that the ethico-religious framework he used helped him to do that. He felt he had an answer to the 'why' question, I suppose. No sign of chaos there at all.

I understand what you are saying. It heartwrenching to see someone experience something like that, and awestriking that he can show compassion to the perpetrators family, in a calm and dignified way. I hope he can keep that calm over the years to come, as it usually takes some time before the "real" realisation of a loss. Come christmas next year and the room is still empty, while media has forgotten about the incident, and most family and friends are weary with grief.

[_Chap]

interesting comment from the Onion:

(For the mentally challenged, and those living in China and Iran: the Onion is an online satirical magazine.)

NEWTOWN, CT—Following today’s mass shooting that left 20 young children dead at a Connecticut elementary school, numerous sources across the country reported that their government-protected right to own a portable device that propels small masses of metal through the air at lethal rates of speed is completely worth any such consequences. “It’s my God-given right and a founding principle of this country that I be able to own a [piece of metal that launches other smaller pieces of metal great distances, one after the other], and if a few deaths here and there is the price we have to pay for that freedom, then so be it,” said Lawrence Crane of nearby Danbury, CT, who is such a staunch advocate of the portable deadly-pellet-flinging apparatuses that he keeps multiple versions of such mechanisms in his home, often carries one with him, and is a member of a club whose sole purpose is to celebrate these assembled steel things and the small bits of metal they send flying. “Sure, it’s sad that a few kids died, but it’s far better than the tyranny that would result if the government came and took away all our [mechanical contraptions that make a lot of little pointy chunks of metal go through the air fast]. Can you even imagine what kind of horrible world that would be?” The man added that if the events that unfolded today led lawmakers to question his ability to possess any such items of steel and lead, authorities would have to “pry the [wholly inanimate mechanical object, nothing more, nothing less] from [his] dead hands.”

On the last quotation, this clip from the Men In Black is pretty apposite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTO-xVLG5HE

See around 50 seconds.

[_Kishkumen]

I edited the title of the thread because I discovered that the mother is in fact ex-LDS and now Catholic. Perhaps we should move the thread to Off-Topic discussions in order to reflect its very tangential relationship to the Mormonism. Honestly, it was a late night error on my part when I posted it in the first place. This is not really a narrowly Mormon topic so much as a human one. Please accept my apologies. I have fallen out of the habit of using the different sub-fora appropriately.

K

[_Fence Sitter]

Most of the attitudes I express on this board to the doctrines, institutional structures and practices of the CoJCoLDS are critical or questioning. But sometimes my experience here has the positive effect of increasing my range of human sympathy since I understand where people of a Mormon background are coming from.

I recently experienced an example of this. I heard the father of a child killed at Sandy Hook being interviewed by a radio reporter. The poor man was trying to say something to make sense of what had happened, and he spoke words like these:

"Well, this happened because that was the way that man chose to exercise his free agency. God gives us all free agency, and it's something that can never be taken away from us, and that's how he chose to use it."

He was not introduced as anything else but a grieving parent, but the discourse was distinctive and instantly recognizable. And, because I understood the framework he was trying to use to put something between himself and overwhelming grief and loss, I felt, if possible, sorrier for him than if he had not used the terms he did.

My understanding does no good at all to the poor man, and it does nothing to make me more admirable. I merely offer the observation as an example of the positive effects of knowing people better, no matter in what context the knowledge is gained.

Chap,

If that is the same interviewee I saw on TV, I am pretty sure he was LDS. The TV story mentioned that he and his family had just move there from Utah and he looked LDS. (Suit, white shirt, conservative tie, short haircut, and so on.) The man's daughter had been killed in the attack.

[_Willy Law]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asi ... index.html

Weapons don't kill people, PEOPLE DO...!

[_Kevin Graham]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 0611_n.jpg

[_Mormon Think]

Very sad. You're in a tough spot. Have to try to help your child live a normal life but be concerned about the public's safety as well.

[_sethpayne]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/811_574772355881613_1589870611_n.jpg

Excellent graphic, Kevin.

You will not find a more ardent supporter of 2nd amendment rights that me. However, I agree with absolutely everything this graphic mentions: safety training, background checks -- we have to ensure mentally ill people or felons don't get guns and if they do, we have to hold the owner of the firearm responsible *if* they were negligent. And, in my opinion, if you let your firearms get into the hands of any untrained person without your express permission, you are being negligent. The right to bear arms is, in fact, a right. But rights come with serious responsibilities. Every gun owner MUST have a gun safe that only they can open. Only the bare minimum ammunition for self defense purposes should be stored with the firearm. The remaining ammo needs to be locked up separately. Anything less is foolhardy gun ownership and if your weapon is used to commit a crime, I believe you should be held negligent. Period.

There is a reason Utah's concealed carry permit is the most widely accepted (by other States) valid permit (if you hold a Utah permit you can legally carry a concealed pistol in 34 other states, If I recall correctly). Utah 1) requires safety training and basic firearms training and 2) once they have issued a permit they conduct background checks every 90 days or so and if they see that a permit holder has committed a felony, been picked up on drug possession, been involved in a domestic dispute, been under serious psychiatric care etc.... they revoke the permit immediately. Utah has some of the best, most sensible gun laws in the country. They protect the people's right to bear arms but they also are incredibly effective at keeping them out of the wrong hands.

I feel for this mother but I hope that people pay attention and get her son the help she needs. Similarly, let's hope that she does everything in her power to prevent her son from obtaining firearms.

[_dblagent007]

I agree with you Seth. I have guns, but my family hardly even knows about them because they are in a vault. No one gets in there but me. I don't worry about home defense too much because statistics show that: (a) I live in a low crime area and (b) guns in a home are much more likely to be involved in an accident than in a self-defense shooting. I protect against the risk of an accident and don't worry about self-defense (if I was worried about self-defense I could get a biometric safe that goes in my closet or something like that).

I believe in a right to bear arms, but I think we need to be responsible about it. I think we can make some general progress in this direction given this event, but not if both sides stick to their same old positions, which is what I am seeing.

[_sethpayne]

I agree with you Seth. I have guns, but my family hardly even knows about them because they are in a vault. No one gets in there but me. I don't worry about home defense too much because statistics show that: (a) I live in a low crime area and (b) guns in a home are much more likely to be involved in an accident than in a self-defense shooting. I protect against the risk of an accident and don't worry about self-defense (if I was worried about self-defense I could get a biometric safe that goes in my closet or something like that).

I believe in a right to bear arms, but I think we need to be responsible about it. I think we can make some general progress in this direction given this event, but not if both sides stick to their same old positions, which is what I am seeing.

My brothers do something very interesting with their kids - boys and girls. When they hit 9 or 10, Dad takes them out to the mountains to start target practicing but they have to recite the safety rules and talk through everything they do from taking off the trigger lock, to loading the magazine, etc... They are taught from a relatively young age how to safely use these very powerful weapons. They know that if they ever see a gun they go and tell an adult immediately. Will this prevent accidents? Well, there are no guarantees but when you combine good safety training with a good gun safe ... accidents are less likely to happen.

I am disheartened by how quickly this turned into a gun control pissing match. I mean, just hours after the shooting Bloomberg releases a statement calling new legislation. Of course, reckless gun nuts started spouting off as well. It seems that we forgot that a deranged maniac killed children!!! We have problems to address in this country and this represents and opportunity to come together and compromise.

In terms of self defense, unfortunately I live in an area that has seen a troubling increase in home invasion for purposes of robbery, and even rape. Just like our family has an evacuation/meeting plan in case of a fire, we also have a plan in place for what to do is someone ever tries to enter the house.

At a safety class I attended in October the instructor made an excellent point. He said that just because you have a firearm, doesn't mean you are Rambo. If someone breaks into your house, get yourself to a safe place, call the police, and yell like crazy at the intruder that if he enters the room where you have gathered, you will open fire. He said that in 90% of the cases an intruder will get the hell out.

I read an interesting article this morning about the shooting in Oregon.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html

This young man needs to be commended because he did everything *exactly* right in that situation. He chose not to fire at the gunman because he was worried about what was "down range" and he did not want to risk harming/killing an innocent person. When the gunman saw that this young man had a gun pointed at him and that he was ready to fire when he had a clean shot, he took off and offed himself. Now, was this young man the reason the shooter decided to call off his rampage? We don't know. But I was glad to see that he acted responsibly, didn't imagine himself John Wayne, and showed composure. He OBVIOUSLY had been trained on how to use a firearm. Why anyone would be opposed to requiring rigorous and extensive firearms training for CPL holders is beyond me.

Kids who learn about firearms via Call of Duty frighten me. These games are becoming so realistic and use *real* firearms that they have almost become a training tool for how to walk around and create havoc. Maybe it is time we take another look at these games.

Oh .... and has anyone heard that the Westboro Baptist Church is going to picket the funerals of these children??? This must be stopped by any peaceful means available. I wish I still lived in the Northeast so I could go and help form a human wall a block around these funerals to prevent these sick bastards from their evil, disgusting ways. Let the lawsuits fly AFTER the funerals.

http://newtown.patch.com/articles/westb ... elementary

Sorry for the ramble....

Seth