quote="Droopy" First, according to EA and Beastie (and most on the Left), its poverty that produces gangsta rap, Hip-Hop culture, and underclass values, Hip-Hop being the authentic voice and expression of that experience. Next, its rampant materialism and capitalist "lust." Why then, I wonder, doesn't Bill Gates dress like Tupac Shakur?)
I said no such thing. Feel free to quote otherwise.
I did say, "Country music is similar to hip hop in that it is heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by poverty."
Here's the entire quote:
Country music is similar to hip hop in that it is heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by poverty. That's why those themes come up a lot.
You responded with, "Its also heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by vast wealth and fame, and is consumed heavily by both white and black middle class youth."
Then you point out:
... those musical culture's relationship with poverty helps explain the content. People write what they know."
Why did no antinomian, anti-civilizational thug culture glorifying criminality, drug use, macho posing, misogyny, predatory, adventuristic male sexuality, and gang membership originate among the Oakies or among the vast numbers of unemployed blue collar workers of the Depression era?
Why did the underclass thug culture only appear among blacks themselves during the 70s and 80s, and why was it overwhelmingly absent among American blacks from the early 60s and back to the early part of the 20th century, when blacks were, as a group, not only much poorer but legitimately oppressed as a racial minority?
Meanwhile, while attempting to pillory me for saying that the content of hip-hop is influenced by the experience of poverty, you go on to approvingly quote an essay written by a black cultural critic that says, "Hip-hop is not just a style of music. It is a culture borne of poor, inner-city life in America that has evolved into the rallying cry of those unable to negotiate the nuances of the mainstream."
And that' s the key difference. Hip-Hop was born in the inner city, to be sure (I never claimed that it wasn't). But what you and the cultural Left do not (actually, truth be told, will not) understand is Precisely what McWhorter points out here; that it became an iconic musical form of a sub-cultural element within the inner city black community that has, for all intents, opted out of participating in the project of civilization. They have become barbarians who's entire stance toward civil society is one of opposition and antagonism. And this is the key: it was not poverty
qua poverty that appears to have generated this dynamic, otherwise, it would have generated that dynamic long ago and across racial and ethnic lines (blacks were moving into the middle class in substantial numbers throughout the fifties and into the sixties, and their overall economic position in society was moving forward on a consistent basis, when the Great Society was created, unlike in the pre-WWII world, and during the Great Depression, when vast numbers of Americans, black and white, underwent a long season of intransigent economic collapse and the relative term "poverty" had a number of different connotations, as far as actual living standards go, than it does now). The key here is the rise of the welfare state, the mentality of entitlement and permanent grievance; the concept of welfare as a "right," and the use of racial balkanization and a cult of victimology the flames of which were fanned by supportive ideologies and programs (Affirmative Action, black cultural nationalism, doctrines culled from critical race theory, Afrocentrism etc.) that was targeted, since the inauguration of the Great Society, most aggressively at Black Americans.
You even italicize the line for emphasis. That's more strident that my mere claim to influence, and yet you approve. You're all over the map. You seem satisfied to cut and paste any writing, of which you've done several, if it is 1) critical of hip hop and 2) written by a black guy.
There are quite a number of (very educated and intelligent) "black guys" out there who do not accept the views of white liberals and leftists in this area, and who, indeed, deplore them, just as I and many of the best minds in American political philosophy also do.
The message, beyond your own confusion over what is you actually think, is simply, "how can you criticize my attitudes when black people also also complain about hip-hop's status among blacks?!" The thought that there are distinct points being made, not all the same as yours, doesn't enter your mind.
You have yet to field a single argument that demonstrates that Mr. McWhorter made a single claim in his piece that I would not, on the merits of the case, agree with, for the most part.
Really, the attitude here is more racist than your unthinking repetition of racist dog whistling of hip-hop that you mistakenly believe to be the same thing John McWhoter is saying.
More of the typical left-wing emotional venting that passes, in most cases, for "argument" among the Anointed. Please proceed, E.
I don't think that hip-hop is the only authentic expression of the experience of inner-city poverty among blacks. I agree with McWhorter on this point, which I referenced to Dr. Scratch, and would criticize anyone who held that attitude.
That's good, but, unfortunately, the vast majority of the academic world, the mainstream pop news and entertainment media, and K-12 public ed and the teachers colleges, do not make that distinction, nor have both the black and white pop news media and entertainment industry refrained, for the last 25 years or so, from bloating and extolling gangsta rap and Hip-Hop into a symbolic representation of authentic "blackness," and implied, either implicitly or explicitly, that blacks who do not conform to this ideologically interested stereotype are, in some sense, less that truly black.
Modern academia has been especially complicit, over the last three decades, in fomenting and popularizing these attitudes and beliefs.
I think it is an authentic expression, however - one we don't have to always agree with to find artistic merit in. Moreover, it's a pretty diverse genre, much more so than when this essay was written.
Irrelevant, however. "Gangsta" and underclass values-dominated Hip-Hop, while a sub-genre of rap and Hip-Hop respectively, during and after the 80s came to dominate these genres and, more importantly, came to dominate almost the entire black and white entertainment pop cultural presentation of black culture and that which determines its "authenticity." (whatever that actually means). Its intellectual justifications derive from the academy and its various sectarian ideological cults that have wrapped themselves within the folds of academia and ensconced themselves in higher education as "black studies," "Afrocentrism, "diversity," and multiculturalism, broadly speaking.
Finally, since you mention it, not all displays of lavish wealth look the same. Bill Gates is a particularly poor example because he's quite Aspergery and from a geek subculture that doesn't care for ostentatious displays of wealth. But, at the end of the day, a platinum chain and a incredibly expensive suit aren't all that different in what they represent. That one is more "thuggish" and crude to you over the other represents some cultural prejudices you harbor.
More emotion-based baiting and spleen venting. Do you think you could actually concentrate on fielding a reasoned body of logically connected arguments, just for once, E? You might actually find it more stimulating than acting like Chris Matthews (your continual snide little smears about things like my alleged "cultural prejudices" are nothing more that indications of your own prejudicial bigotries against people who disagree with your own ideological framework. All of a piece, really).
Anyway, I see little connection between George Benson walking around in a suit that costs several thousand dollars (I saw a short documentary on him once in which he was shown picking one out that I recall, in that particular instance, ran about $8,000) and this:
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http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0 ... -blaze.jpg[/img]
Here's yet another one of EAs, Beastie's, Scratch's, Cam's etc. mascots, and an "authentic" voice of the "authentic" "African" American "experience":
