Animal sacrifice in New Testament era LDS teach

[_subgenius]

You will find that animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews (see also Yom Kippur) - yet they recognize they are only to be offered when and where God commands - and they do not consider the Old Testament sacrifices as being an indication of the coming Messiah.
Just as with the Jewish tradition, animal sacrifice is not intended to be carried out by just anyone at anytime.
I consider the Old Testament origins of animal sacrifice to be relevant in as much as they were instituted to represent the gods of Egypt - just as we learn that the plagues sent upon Egypt were specifically against Egyptian gods.
In as much as these events represent the bondage and freedom of Israel it is not a stretch to apply them to the future, or to discern them as a manner by which God works on this earth.

Your representation of Judaism is tragically flawed, to say the least.

i guess we are supposed to just take your word for it....CFR?
i eagerly await your take on Qorbanot, you clever little parah adumah

[_Morley]

You will find that animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews (see also Yom Kippur) - yet they recognize they are only to be offered when and where God commands - and they do not consider the Old Testament sacrifices as being an indication of the coming Messiah.
Just as with the Jewish tradition, animal sacrifice is not intended to be carried out by just anyone at anytime.
I consider the Old Testament origins of animal sacrifice to be relevant in as much as they were instituted to represent the gods of Egypt - just as we learn that the plagues sent upon Egypt were specifically against Egyptian gods.
In as much as these events represent the bondage and freedom of Israel it is not a stretch to apply them to the future, or to discern them as a manner by which God works on this earth.

Your representation of Judaism is tragically flawed, to say the least.

i guess we are supposed to just take your word for it....CFR?
i eagerly await your take on Qorbanot, you clever little parah adumah

As a beginning, in simplistic terms: Korban.

[_subgenius]

As a beginning, in simplistic terms: Korban.

nice try
perhaps your posts should rely less on simple and go for substance.
wow, surely your Wikipedia link is much more authoritative than Jewish texts...whew!

"From this universal type of sacrifice the 'olah was differentiated. The "wholeness" of the oblation was what distinguished it from other fire-offerings, at least in outward form. But this wholeness was not an exclusive mark of burnt offerings among sacrifices in general; for it merely implied that no part of the oblation was to be consumed by any one except the Deity, to whom it was wholly surrendered."
see also
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... banot.html


For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
see also
http://inthedoghouse.hubpages.com/hub/T ... r-Ten-Gods

[_subgenius]

As a beginning, in simplistic terms: Korban.

perhaps after the slap sensation subsides from my last post you could be a little more specific about your claim.

for example you stated:

Your representation of Judaism is tragically flawed, to say the least.

is this tragic flaw represented by:
1. Orthodox Jews still consider animal sacrifice necessary?
2. Yom Kippur as representing ancient temple rites, including animal sacrifice?
3. The Jewish tradition that animal sacrifice is NOT intended to be performed by anyone at anytime?
4. The "I consider" the Old Testament origins of animal sacrifice akin to intention of the plagues being against Egyptian gods?
5. That the plagues were specific to Egyptian gods?
6. That Orthodox Jews do not view Old Testament blood sacrifices as prophetic for the coming Messiah?
7. That the bondage and freedom of Israel as represented by the plagues and sacrifices in the Old Testament will likely find no simile in the future?

You considered my representations, when they occurred, of the Judaism to be tragically flawed....please, justify that consideration beyond posting a link to a cursory Wikipedia page...or you may also just concede that your posting was trolling.

[_Morley]

nice try
perhaps your posts should rely less on simple and go for substance.
wow, surely your Wikipedia link is much more authoritative than Jewish texts...whew!

"From this universal type of sacrifice the 'olah was differentiated. The "wholeness" of the oblation was what distinguished it from other fire-offerings, at least in outward form. But this wholeness was not an exclusive mark of burnt offerings among sacrifices in general; for it merely implied that no part of the oblation was to be consumed by any one except the Deity, to whom it was wholly surrendered."http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/qorbanot.html

How does this show that "animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews"?

My daughter will be interested to find that animal sacrifice is still necessary in her religion.

For one Orthodox commentary on this see: Confronting Korbanot.

http://inthedoghouse.hubpages.com/hub/T ... r-Ten-Gods

Really? This appears to be some Christian's blog post.

[_Morley]

...you clever little parah adumah

Name calling is unnecessary. Even if it demonstrates your prowess at using Google.

[_subgenius]

How does this show that "animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews"?

i believe you stated that it, as it was posted, is tragically flawed...or are you now backpedaling to it is "needing further explanation"?

My daughter will be interested to find that animal sacrifice is still necessary in her religion.

unless she is Baptist.

For one Orthodox commentary on this see: Confronting Korbanot.

thanks..i really like this quote from that site:
"....why an all-powerful, incorporeal God would demand the offering of animals and grain in His worship.
On the other hand, we cannot deny that the sacrificial rite is an integral part of Jewish law. Not only are substantial portions of Torah text dedicated to detailed descriptions of korbanot, but these rituals apparently remain, to this day, a critical component of our national aspirations and dreams. Jewish liturgy is replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of the sacrifices." (emphasis mine, awkward yours)

[_Morley]

How does this show that "animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews"?

i believe you stated that it, as it was posted, is tragically flawed...or are you now backpedaling to it is "needing further explanation"?

My daughter will be interested to find that animal sacrifice is still necessary in her religion.

unless she is Baptist.

For one Orthodox commentary on this see: Confronting Korbanot.

thanks..i really like this quote from that site:
"....why an all-powerful, incorporeal God would demand the offering of animals and grain in His worship.
On the other hand, we cannot deny that the sacrificial rite is an integral part of Jewish law. Not only are substantial portions of Torah text dedicated to detailed descriptions of korbanot, but these rituals apparently remain, to this day, a critical component of our national aspirations and dreams. Jewish liturgy is replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of the sacrifices." (emphasis mine, awkward yours)

What you're really saying is that "Jewish liturgy [being] replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of the sacrifices" is something you're interpreting to mean that "animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews." Am I right?

Your initial statement made it sound like you thought that animal sacrifice was still performed, today--thus, my assertion that your declaration was 'tragically flawed,' with which you seem to take umbrage.

I took exception, because no Jew that I know (Orthodox or otherwise) would have agreed with your original statement. (I made a couple of calls to make sure I wasn't off-base on this.)

Sub, isn't your conclusion a little like saying that polygamy is still necessary to modern Mormons because it's mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants?

[_Tobin]

Sub, isn't your conclusion a little like saying that polygamy is still necessary to modern Mormons because it's mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants?

And it was labeled a sin in the Book of Mormon. I'm so confused?!?

[_subgenius]

What you're really saying is that "Jewish liturgy [being] replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of the sacrifices" is something you're interpreting to mean that "animal sacrifice is considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews." Am I right?

actually, what "i am saying" has been posted. Your quote above is from the reference you provided - so perhaps it is more appropriate to ask what it is "you" are saying.

Your initial statement made it sound like you thought that animal sacrifice was still performed, today--thus, my assertion that your declaration was 'tragically flawed,' with which you seem to take umbrage.

i only take umbrage with your accusation being unjustified and thus being nothing more than a 'heckle'. My initial statement is no more different than the following statement which your reference provided:
"...why an all-powerful, incorporeal God would demand the offering of animals and grain in His worship.
On the other hand, [i]we cannot deny that the sacrificial rite is an integral part of Jewish law. Not only are substantial portions of Torah text dedicated to detailed descriptions of korbanot, but these rituals apparently remain, to this day, a critical component of our national aspirations and dreams. Jewish liturgy is replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of the sacrifices." [/i](emphasis mine)

Curious how you consider my initial statement of "considered still necessary by Orthodox Jews" as sounding like "still performed"...again, what i said is actually what i said.

I took exception, because no Jew that I know (Orthodox or otherwise) would have agreed with your original statement. (I made a couple of calls to make sure I wasn't off-base on this.)

which is why included Yom Kippur in parenthesis...a notion that is echoed by the above referenced quote from your provided citation.

Sub, isn't your conclusion a little like saying that polygamy is still necessary to modern Mormons because it's mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants?

No, not at all like that. It would be a "little like saying that" if you provided a citation from the October 2012 General Conference that read something like this:

"...why an all-powerful, incorporeal God would demand polygamy in His worship.
On the other hand, we cannot deny that polygamy is an integral part of Mormon law. Not only are substantial portions of the Book of Mormon text dedicated to detailed descriptions of polygamy, but these rituals apparently remain, to this day, a critical component of our national aspirations and dreams. Mormon liturgy is replete with prayers seeking the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstatement of polygamy"[/i]

However, if one were to contrast Orthodox Judaism with Judaism in the same manner as FLDS and LDS, then one could surely claim that amongst the FLDS polygamy is still considered necessary (and in most cases one could further say that it is "still performed").