Mormonism and polytheism

[_Joan]

I should specify - Consiglieri only wins a prize if he has more binders than Mitt.

That's so old school. I bet consig keeps his in his iPad.

I hope not to laugh at Consiglieri's expense but that's funny stuff.

[_Joan]

"Turtles" were brought up by Steel Head and Ludwig on this thread.

They are in good company. Several notable cosmologists have used this analogy in papers and presentations, including Stephen Hawking and Carl Sagan.

Here is a well known version:

“William James, father of American psychology, tells of meeting an old lady who told him the Earth rested on the back of a huge turtle. "But, my dear lady", Professor James asked, as politely as possible, "what holds up the turtle?" "Ah", she said, "that's easy. He is standing on the back of another turtle." "Oh, I see", said Professor James, still being polite. "But would you be so good as to tell me what holds up the second turtle?" "It's no use, Professor", said the old lady, realizing he was trying to lead her into a logical trap. "It's turtles-turtles-turtles, all the way!”

— from Wilson, R.A. (1983, 1997) Prometheus Rising. Phoenix, AZ: New Falcon Publishers, 1983.

Now that I think on it, I recall hearing a story about Turtle Nation. There is a tribe of Canadian Indians who call themselves Turtle Nation, in Turtle lodge, or something along that line.


snip from some online location:
The Native American legend of the turtle goes like this:

Where Is Turtle Island?
The name "Turtle Island" comes from a common Native American legend and is their name for the North American continent. The story tells us that North America is perched on the back of a very large tortoise who has volunteered its shell as a home for the land animals.

Who is Turtle Island?

Though you may not realize it, probably right under your feet! Turtle Island is the name that several native American tribes gave to the North American Continent. In their lore, the earth was at one time all water. The land animals had no place to live until a giant tortoise arose from the water and offered its shell as a home for these creatures. Thus, with North America perched on the back of this large turtle we need to treat our "island" home with honor and respect.

>>end snip.

lol, this would be more in line with Dr.W's version of one gigantic levitating turtle.

[_Res Ipsa]

You've never lived until you've traveled by hover turtle.

[_Mittens]

How many times does it have to say there's One God does it take a Mormon to believe it ?


Book of Mormon
•I Nephi 13:41 "...for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth."
•Mosiah 8:16 "...except he should possess the power of God, which no man can..."
•Alma 11:26-29 "And Zeezrom said unto him:... is there more than one God? And he [Amulek] answered, No"
•Alma 11:35 "...for he said there is but one God..."

I quote from Book of Mormon since it rarely agrees with Mormonism, it seems to be written by Creedal Christian definitely not Mormon.

Bible
• Deuteronomy 4:39: "Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else."
• Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
• Joshua 3:10 "And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the LIVING God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites..."
•Job 10:8 "Thine hands have made me and fashioned me..."
•Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein."
•Isaiah 43:10 "Before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me."
•Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
•Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
•Isaiah 44:8 "You are my witnesses. ; Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one"
•Isaiah 45:5-6 "I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God..."
•Isaiah 45:12 "I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded"
•Isaiah 46:9 "for I am God, and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me."
•Mark 12:32 "for there is one God; and there is none other but he."
•John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
•Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
•Hebrews 1:10-11 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish: but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment."
•Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."

[_SteelHead]

Like I said, my Bible scripture can beat up your Bible scripture....

Mittens, how far do I have to get into Genesis before god uses the word "us"?

http://Bible.cc/john/10-34.htm

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

[_subgenius]

Like I said, my Bible scripture can beat up your Bible scripture....

Mittens, how far do I have to get into Genesis before god uses the word "us"?

http://Bible.cc/john/10-34.htm

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

to be fair, is Jesus not being sarcastic in John 10:34 ?

[_SteelHead]

No, Jesus is quoting psalms 82:6 in response to the Jews taking umbrage with his declaring himself the son of god (indirectly vs 28,29 and more directly vs 30).

I can supply a wall of biblical references supporting a plurality of gods.

First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation.

The Bible is literal, means what is says and says what it means.
.
.
.
.
Except when it doesn't.

I am waiting for Mitten's reply that it doesn't mean what it says when it uses a plurality of gods.

Round and round, contradicts itself and useful for proving nothing.

Turtles!

[_Joan]

No, Jesus is quoting psalms 82:6 in response to the Jews taking umbrage with his declaring himself the son of god (indirectly vs 28,29 and more directly vs 30).

KJV vs 6 uses the word children of God, rather than son of God in vs 6.

Hebrew Torah interpretation in english is: " I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16303


To preface my next statement, I don't think Jesus existed. I think he was a fabrication of Rome with the goal to Romanize the Jews and create a church for Rome. (Pliny2, the younger, writes about his concern that Greece has a religious belief system and Rome, as a polytheist nation, didn't have one - they supported many beliefs.) Hellenization and Romanization attempts had been on-going. The new testament was entirely written by a Roman backed group initially connected to each other.

Emperor Vespasian, and other emperors, like Caesar and Caligula claimed that they were specifically Sons of God and wanted to take on the Jewish Messiah role. I think this verse reflects the beliefs of the Roman writers, who wrote on behalf of Jesus, and their translation of the Torah. It implies that Jesus, the Jewish messiah, would not know what the Torah meant. Nah, Jesus the Jewish Messiah certainly would have known what the Torah said; n.t. claims he'd been teaching it in the temples since childhood.

[_Tobin]

To preface my next statement, I don't think Jesus existed. I think he was a fabrication of Rome with the goal to Romanize the Jews and create a church for Rome.

Fascinating. by the way - Do you believe men really walked on the moon?

[_Joan]

@ Tobin.
huh?
whut?

You believe Jesus is real because that's what has been pushed by Rome for 2 milennia.

Did Rome get their Church?
Do you realize you're getting scriptures interpreted by Rome, not by the Jews?

Do you believe God is a man with a long white beard?