Book of Mormon Borrowings from the New Testament

[_vessr]

Wikipedia defines “parallelisms” in rhetoric as “giving two or more parts of the sentences a similar form so as to give the whole a definite pattern.” I propose that the following examples are rhetorical parallelisms. Each begins with a citation from the Book of Mormon, that is followed by the Book of Mormon quote to which it applies, followed by a parallel quote in the New Testament, and followed, finally, by the citation to the New Testament quote. (The previous sentence is an example of parallelism in grammar bty.)

I ask the following questions: (1) Do these parallelisms create a pattern establishing that Joseph Smith copied New Testament words and phrases as he was translating or writing, as the case may be, the Book of Mormon?; (2) If the answer to the first question is in the affirmative, what does this tell us about how to Book of Mormon was created?; and (3) Would it be helpful if I produced hundreds of these parallelisms between Book of Mormon and New Testament phrases and sentences?

1. 1 Nephi 1:14: “Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty”; “Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty”: Revelation 15:3

2. 1 Nephi 2:10: “steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord” “steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord” 1 Cor. 15:58.

3. 1 Nephi 2:18: “being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts”; “being grieved for the hardness of their hearts”: Mark 3:5.

4. 1 Nephi 2:24: “to stir them up in the ways of remembrance”; “to stir you up by putting you in remembrance” 2 Peter 1:13.

5. 1 Nephi 3:20: “spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets… since the world began”; “spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began”: Acts 3:21.

6. 1 Nephi 5:8: “Now I know of a surety that the Lord hath…delivered them out of the hands of Laban”; “Now I know of a surety, that the LORD hath…delivered me out of the hand of Herod”: Acts 12:11.

7. 1 Nephi 5:18: “all nations, kindreds, tongues and people”; “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people”: Revelation 11:9.

8. 1 Nephi 10:8-10: “for there standeth one among you whom ye know not; and he is mightier than I, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. And much spake my father concerning this thing. And my father said he should baptize in Bethabara, beyond Jordan; and he also said he should baptize with water; even that he should baptize the Messiah with water. And after he had baptized the Messiah with water, he should behold and bear record that he had baptized the Lamb of God, who should take away the sins of the world”; “but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”: John 1:26-27.

9. 1 Nephi 10:8: “cry in the wilderness: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, and make his paths straight”; “the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord”: John 1:23.

10. 1 Nephi 10:18: “he is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever”; “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever”: Heb. 13:8.

[Guest]

No. The proposition is that we should expect entirely unique and different language and phrases from the Lord. Why? Shouldn't we expect that if both the Bible and Book of Mormon are from the same source (ie God), they would be very similar instead? And the Book of Mormon was revealed to the mind of Joseph Smith. Since the Book of Mormon is from God, you would expect him to express anything God revealed to him in almost exactly the religious language and phrases that he was familiar with in the Bible (within his mortal, fallible abilitiy to do so of course).

[_Tobin]

ludwigm,

How many of these men provided the translations by the revelation of God simply to their minds and by not knowing the original language involved? None. Your attempt here is to compare dissimilar things. If you had four men that used exactly the same method as Joseph Smith, then it would be valid. That is not the case here and the source of your mistake. Your conclusion is flawed as a result.

[_ludwigm]

ludwigm,

How many of these men provided the translations by the revelation of God simply to their minds and by not knowing the original language involved? None. Your attempt here is compare dissimilar things. If you had four men that used exactly the same method as Joseph Smith, then it would valid. That is not the case here and the source of your mistake. Your conclusion is flawed as a result.

How many men translated anything by the revelation of any god? The examples, please...

Please leave the fairy tales about JS or whoever.
He didn't translated anything. He said he did, and this is a big difference.

Please show me
- any real original text (not lost, not brought back to nowhere...)
- its translation
- AND the man who translated it by the way You mentioned above


by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?

By not knowing the original language one can not translate.
Anybody who used to say the opposite - up to now - was charlatan or stupid.
Take Your pick.
Anybody who believes that, is simply stupid.
No pick (only the icepick...)

by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?

[_Tobin]

ludwigm,

You aren't saying anything in your response. You are just stating the claim that Joseph Smith translated by the gift and power is God is false BECAUSE?!?

Is it your position the claim is false because God doesn't exist?
Is it your position the claim is false because God is incapable of doing what I described?
Are you God?

The problem I see here is that your underlying premises are fatally flawed and so your conclusions are as well.

[_ludwigm]

You aren't saying anything in your response.

I am sorry.
- The fruit of mine own nature, nought beside Can I give Thee;
- I only render what is in my nature.
- I can pass nothing except my essence.
(citations from a work You didn't read, and never will...)

You are just stating the claim that Joseph Smith translated by the gift and power is God is false BECAUSE?!?
Is it your position the claim is false because God doesn't exist?

Yes.

You are just stating the claim that Joseph Smith translated by the gift and power is God is false BECAUSE?!?
Is it your position the claim is false because God is incapable of doing what I described?

This question has no meaning.
As one of my namesakes, Ludwig Josef Johann Wittgenstein said, Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen. = What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence. (You know, here You can see a real translation...)

Paraphrasing Your question: Is Easter Bunny capable of planting chocolate eggs around the gardens of our grandchildren? I don't know the answer, but I can do te same - at least for one bunch of our 20 grandchildrens, because they are living around four nest of bunnies. (6, 6, 5 in Hungary, 3 in Netherland)

You are just stating the claim that Joseph Smith translated by the gift and power is God is false BECAUSE?!?
Are you God?

No.
Nobody is.

The problem I see here is that your underlying premises are fatally flawed and so your conclusions are as well.

The problem I see here is that You are living in Emerald City as one of the the flying monkeys - with internet access.

by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?

[_Tobin]

ludwigm,

It finally comes out. You simply don't believe in God. I'm mystified by atheists like you that wish to dispute the basis upon which God revealed the Book of Mormon when THEY DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD in the first place.

[_vessr]

ludwigm,

It finally comes out. You simply don't believe in God. I'm mystified by atheists like you that wish to dispute the basis upon which God revealed the Book of Mormon when THEY DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD in the first place.

Ludwigm, thank you for your very insightful posts, particularly the first one. Tobin, thanks for your responses. Just to be clear, could you answer for me the questions I posed (below) just as Ludwigm has?

(1) Do these parallelisms create a pattern establishing that Joseph Smith copied New Testament words and phrases as he was translating or writing, as the case may be, the Book of Mormon?; (2) If the answer to the first question is in the affirmative, what does this tell us about how to Book of Mormon was created?; and (3) Would it be helpful if I produced hundreds of these parallelisms between Book of Mormon and New Testament phrases and sentences?

I had a stroke over a year ago and, honestly, I lost my faith(s) as a result (former born-again-Christian and former believer in the Book of Mormon. I sincerely want to know the responses to the above questions from a number of people because I sincerely want to knnow where to turn from here ... to a God, if he exists? Toa religion, if there is a true one? As this is a forum for the exchange of ideas, I ask for everyone's ideas on this. Please start with the premise that I am sincere about this, if you would. Next, try to understand that I am in the (study it out in your mind) part of my investigation. I have prayed and get no answer. Please focus on my questions and not telling me to pray ... I have and am doing that. For now, God, if he exists, has not answered me.

I also ask that this not turn into a yelling match.

[_ludwigm]

It finally comes out. You simply don't believe in God.

Finally? If You ever read one - any - of my comments (I don't think You did), it was clear.

I'm mystified by atheists like you that wish to dispute the basis upon which God revealed the Book of Mormon when THEY DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD in the first place.

This sentence is not english. It is chinese (for me).
I am sorry (again and again).
Senseless sentences can not be translated - even by revelation of one of thousands of gods. (You can prefer some of them...)

.

.

.

Yes, I don't believe in any god.
So what?
Are unbelievers prohibited to dispute the deeds of so-called prophets?
Are unbelievers prohibited to dispute the so-called translations of so-called prophets?

As far as I remember, You didn't answer my questions. Are You coward/dastard/funky/nithing/poltroonish/unmanly ? (I have yet more than a dozen word - as a nonenglish speaker...)
I've answered all of Your ones.

by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?

[_ludwigm]

Ludwigm, thank you for your very insightful posts, particularly the first one.

That was addressed to You - and it is my real opinion, seriously.

Tobin, thanks for your responses. Just to be clear, could you answer for me the questions I posed (below) just as Ludwigm has?

No, he can't answer any question.

I also ask that this not turn into a yelling match.

Me too.