Book of Mormon Borrowings from the New Testament

[Guest]

ludwigm,

I've addressed your comments. I find them uninteresting though. If you are an atheist, then it makes no sense to concern yourself with how God revealed the Book of Mormon. You simply do not believe in God and so there is nothing to discuss.

[_Tobin]

(1) Do these parallelisms create a pattern establishing that Joseph Smith copied New Testament words and phrases as he was translating or writing, as the case may be, the Book of Mormon?

No, because I do not accept the proposition that God would speak differently.

(2) If the answer to the first question is in the affirmative, what does this tell us about how to Book of Mormon was created?

Since the proposition is fatally flawed in my view, I view the observation as utterly meaningless.

(3) Would it be helpful if I produced hundreds of these parallelisms between Book of Mormon and New Testament phrases and sentences?

No. If you do not believe in God or believe Joseph Smith perpetrated a fraud by creating the Book of Mormon, then what would be the point? Who are you trying to convince? The only reason you'd create this list of parallelisms is to convince the few people that bought into your flawed proposition. I see no reason a Mormon should do so however.

I sincerely want to know the responses to the above questions from a number of people because I sincerely want to knnow where to turn from here ... to a God, if he exists?

You seem to have missed the point of what I've stated to you previously. You should concentrate on doing your best serving others with kindness, understanding, and acceptance no matter what they believe. You are welcome to come to this forum and discuss Mormonism if you want, but no amount of discussion will change that what I've recommended as the one and only true religion.

[_marg]

Re parallelisms. Ton Donofrio has written about early American influences on Book of Mormon. using evidences of parallel phrases between various texts and Book of Mormon.

http://mormonthink.com/influences.htm

[_ludwigm]

there is nothing to discuss.

Something we agree...

by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?
Something You have forgotten to answer - but don't care, I know You can not answer anything.

Better said, You are not able...

[_vessr]

Re parallelisms. Ton Donofrio has written about early American influences on Book of Mormon. using evidences of parallel phrases between various texts and Book of Mormon.

http://mormonthink.com/influences.htm

Hi, Marg. Great to hear from you! (If you get a chance, please consider responding to Dan Fogel's final responses on the Vogel versus Chandler thread.

I looked at Tom's work, and it seems to focus entirely on "borrowings" from other writers than the New Testament, such as Spaulding. He does mention borrowings from the Bible in the conclusion of the piece, but without cites as far as I can see. I know others have developed lists of similar phrases/sentences that compare New Testament/Book of Mormon similarities. I found their work helpful, but not complete.

The one thing that my list has, besides side-by-side comparison of substantial amounts of text, is that the majority of my Book of Mormon references are without attribution or even citing the corresponding New Testament quote. You would think a Church whose members pride themselves in doing scripture linkings (cross-references) in their studies would at least have made these connection for the benefit of its members personal study.

So I simply focus on the similarities and ask myself whether God would inspire Joseph Smith with such exactness that hasn't been duplicated in any by any Mormon prophet since. I will keep pondering, until I'm satisfied I have the correction understanding. As you might have considered, a lot is riding on my ultimate decision concerning this, as it may effect the next life, as well as this one.

[_Tobin]

vessr,

There has only been one prophet in Mormonism - Joseph Smith. All the others are caretakers of the Church. When was the last time one of these supposed prophets, since Joseph Smith, last claimed to see or speak with God?

[_vessr]

vessr,

There has only been one prophet in Mormonism - Joseph Smith. All the others are caretakers of the Church. When was the last time one of these supposed prophets, since Joseph Smith, last claimed to see or speak with God?

Wow, Tobin. This is the first time I realized that you don't sustain the president of the LDS church or the head of any offshoot religion as a "prophet, seer, and revelator."

Perhaps we can agree on one thing, then ... since Joseph Smith's death (murder), his successors have never acknowledged the totality of the Book of Mormon phrases and sentences that parallel the New Testament. That they have made some of the more obvious references is true; but not a complete citation of Book of Mormon phrases and sentences that parallel the New Testament. It's as if the leadership (since Joseph Smith) has purposely intended to hide these many cross-references from their members. I will hold off judgment of that, however, until I've completed my study-it-out-my-mind exercise.

[_Tobin]

Wow, Tobin. This is the first time I realized that you don't sustain the president of the LDS church or the head of any offshoot religion as a "prophet, seer, and revelator."

Perhaps we can agree on one thing, then ... since Joseph Smith's death (murder), his successors have never acknowledged the totality of the Book of Mormon phrases and sentences that parallel the New Testament. That they have made some of the more obvious references is true; but not a complete citation of Book of Mormon phrases and sentences that parallel the New Testament. It's as if the leadership (since Joseph Smith) has purposely intended to hide these many cross-references from their members. I will hold off judgment of that, however, until I've completed my study-it-out-my-mind exercise.

To be a prophet of God, one must be called of God. You don't get the title because someone died or some man handed it to you like a cookie. So no, I do not believe any of the men in the Church that represent they are prophets, seers and revelators are any of those things.

Joseph Smith's successors have done what they think is best since his death. And yes, in many areas I would agree, they could and should do a lot better job. In fact, it would help a lot if they would actually seek and speak with God instead of assuming they are endowed by God because of who they pretend to be.

[_marg]

I'm currently traveling , am on an iPad but even if I was home that particular discussion with Dan was a long time ago and I no longer remember details involved.

The supernatural explanation for the Book of Mormon I don't consider worthy of serious consideration. On previous threads I've explained why the spalding theory offers the best fit given all the data. In those threads involving Dale Broadhurt, Dan Vogel and others knowledgable on this issue not only were the threads extremely lengthy but they also covered an extensive amount of information. So while I might add to a post as I did above it is highly doubtful I'd involve myself in a potentially lengthy discussion. But I'll be interested in reading your insights as you continue to delve into this.

[_Kittens_and_Jesus]

To be a prophet of God, one must be called of God. You don't get the title because someone died or some man handed it to you like a cookie. So no, I do not believe any of the men in the Church that represent they are prophets, seers and revelators are any of those things.

Joseph Smith's successors have done what they think is best since his death. And yes, in many areas I would agree, they could and should do a lot better job. In fact, it would help a lot if they would actually seek and speak with God instead of assuming they are endowed by God because of who they pretend to be.

Isn't this pretty much the argument that LDS people use to show that the Catholic Church fell into apostasy?