Book of Mormon Borrowings from the New Testament

[_Tobin]

Isn't this pretty much the argument that LDS people use to show that the Catholic Church fell into apostasy?

Almost, but they fail to see it in themselves. Apostasy is always happening. When we turn away from God and we do what we want instead, then we are on the road to apostasy.

[_Bazooka]

No. The proposition is that we should expect entirely unique and different language and phrases from the Lord. Why? Shouldn't we expect that if both the Bible and Book of Mormon are from the same source (ie God), they would be very similar instead? And the Book of Mormon was revealed to the mind of Joseph Smith. Since the Book of Mormon is from God, you would expect him to express anything God revealed to him in almost exactly the religious language and phrases that he was familiar with in the Bible (within his mortal, fallible abilitiy to do so of course).

If both the New Testament (or Bible) and Book of Mormon are to be expected to be "very similar" then what is the point of the Book of Mormon?
If the two books are in conflict over something (e.g. wether or not there will be marriages in heaven) which one should be considered accurate and why?

[_ludwigm]

No. The proposition is that we should expect entirely unique and different language and phrases from the Lord. Why? Shouldn't we expect that if both the Bible and Book of Mormon are from the same source (ie God), they would be very similar instead? And the Book of Mormon was revealed to the mind of Joseph Smith. Since the Book of Mormon is from God, you would expect him to express anything God revealed to him in almost exactly the religious language and phrases that he was familiar with in the Bible (within his mortal, fallible abilitiy to do so of course).

Senseless sentences about languages and grammar...

If both the New Testament (or Bible) and Book of Mormon are to be expected to be "very similar" then what is the point of the Book of Mormon?
If the two books are in conflict over something (e.g. wether or not there will be marriages in heaven) which one should be considered accurate and why?

hehehe

Ask Tobin about


by the way
Do You speak other language than english?
Did You translated anything at any time?

[_Tobin]

No. The proposition is that we should expect entirely unique and different language and phrases from the Lord. Why? Shouldn't we expect that if both the Bible and Book of Mormon are from the same source (ie God), they would be very similar instead? And the Book of Mormon was revealed to the mind of Joseph Smith. Since the Book of Mormon is from God, you would expect him to express anything God revealed to him in almost exactly the religious language and phrases that he was familiar with in the Bible (within his mortal, fallible abilitiy to do so of course).

If both the New Testament (or Bible) and Book of Mormon are to be expected to be "very similar" then what is the point of the Book of Mormon?
If the two books are in conflict over something (e.g. wether or not there will be marriages in heaven) which one should be considered accurate and why?

Actually, you are questioning what should be obvious. The point of the Book of Mormon is exactly the same as the Bible. In fact, the Book of Mormon isn't something different from the Bible at all as I've noted. It is simply a generational record (memory) of man's experiences with God, the same as the Bible. Its purpose is the same of that the Bible - to testify that there is a God, that we should seek this God and that we should speak with him to learn the truth - just as earlier generations have done. Why does it need to be anything other than that?

[_Bazooka]

If both the New Testament (or Bible) and Book of Mormon are to be expected to be "very similar" then what is the point of the Book of Mormon?
If the two books are in conflict over something (e.g. wether or not there will be marriages in heaven) which one should be considered accurate and why?

Actually, you are questioning what should be obvious. The point of the Book of Mormon is exactly the same as the Bible. In fact, the Book of Mormon isn't something different from the Bible at all as I've noted. It is simply a generational record (memory) of man's experiences with God, the same as the Bible. Its purpose is the same of that the Bible - to testify that there is a God, that we should seek this God and that we should speak with him to learn the truth - just as earlier generations have done. Why does it need to be anything other than that?

It just seems to me that we already had the Bible so why the need for a rewrite set in America?

[_Tobin]

It just seems to me that we already had the Bible so why the need for a rewrite set in America?

The Lord in 2 Nephi 29 directly addresses that:

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?

5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.

6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.

14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in cone. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.

[_Bazooka]

Tobin,

You shouldn't use a quote from The Book of Mormon as justification for The Book of Mormon - I believe it's called "circular reasoning" and has no solid basis from which to argue a given point.

Secondly, why does God feel the need to prove Himself a second time?
I mean, is He not God?
Was sending His son as a Saviour to the world not enough?
If He wanted to convince the 'many' of His unchanging nature could He not come up with a better way?

[_Tobin]

You shouldn't use a quote from The Book of Mormon as justification for The Book of Mormon - I believe it's called "circular reasoning" and has no solid basis from which to argue a given point.

I shouldn't quote the Lord when he addresses your question directly. How odd?

Secondly, why does God feel the need to prove Himself a second time? I mean, is He not God? Was sending His son as a Saviour to the world not enough? If He wanted to convince the 'many' of His unchanging nature could He not come up with a better way?

Why don't you ask him? He provides all this evidence (proofs) because he loves us and so that we may have faith in him and choose to follow him.

Also, bear in mind that the son of God will be returning. Your questions, in light of that, seem rather ignorant of Christian beliefs. After all, why is that necessary then? Wasn't the first time sufficient?

[_Bazooka]

I shouldn't quote the Lord when he addresses your question directly.

But you're not quoting the Lord.

At best you're quoting what Joseph Smith said he saw written on a rock in a hat which he believes is what Nephi said the Lord told him.
At worst you're quoting what Joseph Smith said.

[_Tobin]

I shouldn't quote the Lord when he addresses your question directly.

But you're not quoting the Lord.

At best you're quoting what Joseph Smith said he saw written on a rock in a hat which he believes is what Nephi said the Lord told him.
At worst you're quoting what Joseph Smith said.

That same kinds of characterizations can be applied to the Bible. If you wish to hear directly from the Lord and do not accept what others have written, then speak with him yourself. That is what God asks anyway, that we seek him, speak with him, and come to a knowledge of the truth.