Book of Mormon Borrowings from the New Testament

[_Res Ipsa]

**facepalm** I'm sorry Themis. I butchered the opening sentence of that post. It should read: "I see use of KJV language and exact phrases as distinct issues from anachronisms and mistranslations. I'll unmangle it in the original post.

I agree with you on the necessary part -- I don't think it was necessary for the Book of Mormon to be written KJV style.

I just try to imagine myself as god wanting to reveal a new book of scripture in the early 1830's. So I have to reveal it in some language. One would seem to be as good as another, but since the book is about the Americas, choosing a language spoken there makes sense. The plates are buried in New York, so English would be a sensible choice. But what style of English? English like in the newspapers? Or maybe English in the style of scripture that is common in upstate New York. I think I'd go with the style that the locals expect scripture to be written in.

Don't me wrong -- I think the style of the Book of Mormon is the product of Smith imitating KJV style. I just don't find the argument: "the unique LDS scriptures use KJV language, therefore, they can't be from God" to be persuasive.

[_Kittens_and_Jesus]

...(snip)...there are far more people skeptical than believing.

CFR

You need a reference to show that more people are skeptical of the Book of Mormon than are believing?

[_Quasimodo]

Don't me wrong -- I think the style of the Book of Mormon is the product of Smith imitating KJV style. I just don't find the argument: "the unique LDS scriptures use KJV language, therefore, they can't be from God" to be persuasive.

Brad. The KJB was translated from the original Greek (New Testament) and Hebrew (Old Testament). It was translated into the English that was common at the time. There is nothing inherent in those languages that required 16th century English other than that it was the tongue spoken by English people at that time.

The same is true for Egyptian (even reformed Egyptian... whatever that was). Egyptian translates to modern English (or nineteenth century English) just as easily as KJB English.

God did not order the KGB. King James did. It was not God's language in the KJB.

The fact that Joseph Smith used KJB English in his book is VERY damning.

[_vessr]

Don't me wrong -- I think the style of the Book of Mormon is the product of Smith imitating KJV style. I just don't find the argument: "the unique LDS scriptures use KJV language, therefore, they can't be from God" to be persuasive.

Brad. The KJB was translated from the original Greek (New Testament) and Hebrew (Old Testament). It was translated into the English that was common at the time. There is nothing inherent in those languages that required 16th century English other than that it was the tongue spoken by English people at that time.

The same is true for Egyptian (even reformed Egyptian... whatever that was). Egyptian translates to modern English (or nineteenth century English) just as easily as KJB English.

God did not order the KGB. King James did. It was not God's language in the KJB.

The fact that Joseph Smith used KJB English in his book is VERY damning.

I'm going to take the side of Quasimodo and Themis in this discussion and see if I can convince Brad and others that there are so many parallelisms in the Book of Mormon that they, of themselves, are damning to the truth of the Book of Mormon.

Brad Hudson wrote the following:

“I'll out myself in the beginning as a parallel skeptic, meaning I personally place a heavy burden of proof on any argument based on parallels.”

“Given the number of phrases in Bible and the length of the Book of Mormon, I don't think it would be surprising to find parallel phrases or even whole sentences. So, I'm not sure it would be fair to conclude that Smith simply copied from Bible into the Book of Mormon.”
…
“Once you posit an omnipotent and omniscient god, it's not difficult to construct possible explanations for the parallels.”

“All I would draw from the parallelisms is that the author of the Book of Mormon was familiar with the
Bible and chose to make the Book of Mormon language sound like the KJV.”

Themis wrote, “I would also wonder why he [God] would copy exact phrases from these translations. Was is necessary? I can't see any other answer then no.”

Brad Hudson wrote: I see use of KJV language and exact phrases as distinct issues.

Themis wrote: Either Joseph was borrowing intentionally or not, or God was borrowing them knowingly.

Below are 50 exact or almost exact phrases that the Book of Mormon, I would argue, borrows from the New Testament. While a few of them could be explained away, I believe the majority of them cannot. And I have 500 such parallel phrases in the Book of Mormon, connected to exact or similar New Testament phrases. I just can't get around the sheer number and exactness of these parallelisms. And most of the Book of Mormon phrases below are not footnoted to the corresponding phrase in the New Testament. It seems to me this indicates some attempt by the LDS church to avoid confronting head on all of these parallelisms. It also seems to me that the author of the Book of Mormon deliberately went through the New Testament and picked out phrases and sentences that could be used in the stories of the Book of Mormon to make them sound scriptural, even more scriptural than simply using King James language. Of course, the same could be argued about many passages borrowed from the Old Testament; but, other than the words of Isaiah, I think there was far more borrowing going on with the New Testament. I call this "borrowing" because I don't think the Bible can legally be plagairized, as it is in the public domain; but the borrowing can provide evidence of using many parts of the New Testament to develop a story line that sounded scriptural.

1. 1 Nephi 2:18: “being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts”; “being grieved for the hardness of their hearts”: Mark 3:5.

2. 1 Nephi 5:8: “Now I know of a surety that the Lord hath…delivered them out of the hands of Laban”; “Now I know of a surety, that the LORD hath…delivered me out of the hand of Herod”: Acts 12:11.

3. 1 Nephi 10:8-10: “for there standeth one among you whom ye know not; and he is mightier than I, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. And much spake my father concerning this thing. And my father said he should baptize in Bethabara, beyond Jordan; and he also said he should baptize with water; even that he should baptize the Messiah with water. And after he had baptized the Messiah with water, he should behold and bear record that he had baptized the Lamb of God, who should take away the sins of the world”; “but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”: John 1:26-27.

4. 1 Nephi 11:22: “the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men”; “the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts”: Romans 5:5.

5. 1 Nephi 11:36: “and it fell and the fall thereof was exceedingly great”; “and it fell and great was the fall of it”: Matt 7:27.

6. 1 Nephi 12:4: “lightnings, and I heard thundering, and earthquakes”; “thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake”: Rev. 8:5.

7. 1 Nephi 13:7: “gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manners of precious clothing”; gold, and silver,… and fine linen,…and silk, and scarlet…and all manner vessels of most precious wood”: Rev. 18:12.

8. 1 Nephi 13:27: “pervert the right ways of the Lord”; “pervert the right ways of the Lord”: Acts 13:10.

9. 1 Nephi 13:37: “tidings of great joy”; “tidings of great joy”; Luke 2:10.

10. 1 Nephi 14:11: “the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people”; “the great whore that sitteth upon many waters . … The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues”: Revelation 17:1, 15.

11. 1 Nephi 22:17: “they shall be saved, even if it so be as by fire”; “he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire”: 1 Corinthians 3:15.

12. 1 Nephi 22:18: “blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke”; “blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke”: Acts 2:19.

13. 1 Nephi 22:20: “A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people”; “A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people”: Acts 3:22-23.

14. 1 Nephi 22:25: “and there shall be one fold and one shepherd”; “and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd”: John 10:16.

15. 1 Nephi 22:31: “endure to the end, ye shall be saved”; “endure unto the end, the same shall be saved”: Matthew 24:13.

16. 2 Nephi 1:23: “armor of righteousness”; “armour of righteousness”: 2 Cor. 6:7.

17. 2 Nephi 2:14: “God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are”; “God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is”: Acts 4:24.

18. 2 Nephi 2:18: “that old serpent, who is the devil”; “that old serpent, called the Devil”: Rev. 12:9.

19. 2 Nephi 9:9: “ who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light”; “for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light”: 2 Cor. 11:14.

20. 2 Nephi 9:12: “death and hell must deliver up their dead”; “death and hell delivered up the dead”: Revelation 20:13.

21. 2 Nephi 9:16: “the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them”; “into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels”: Matt. 25:41.

22. 2 Nephi 9:16: “their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end”; “he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever”: Rev. 14:10-11.

23. 2 Nephi 9:16: “they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still”; “he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still”: Revelation 22:11.

24. 2 Nephi 9:18: “endured the crosses of the world, and despised the shame”; “endured the cross, despising the shame”: Hebrews 12:2.

25. 2 Nephi 9:30: “they despise the poor”; “ye have despised the poor”: James 2:6.

26. 2 Nephi 9:33: “uncircumcised of heart”; “uncircumcised in heart”: Acts 7:51.

27. 2 Nephi 9:34: “shall be thrust down to hell”; “shalt be thrust down to hell”: Luke 10:15.

28. 2 Nephi 9:42: “whoso knocketh, to him will he open”; “to him that knocketh it shall be opened”: Matthew 7:8.

29. 2 Nephi 9:43: “the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever”; “thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent”: Matt. 11:25.

30. 2 Nephi 10:4: “For should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations they would repent”; “for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago”: Matt. 11:21.

31. 2 Nephi 10:22: “according to his will and pleasure”; “according to the good pleasure of his will”: Ephesians 1:5.

32. 2 Nephi 25:29: “shall in nowise be cast out; “I will in no wise cast out”: John 6:37.

33. 2 Nephi 26:5: “grind them to powder”; “ grind him to powder”: Matt. 21:44.

34. 2 Nephi 28:7: “Eat, drink, and be merry”; “eat, drink, and be merry”: Luke 12:19.

35. 2 Nephi 28:8: “if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes”; “But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes”: Luke 12:48.

36. 2 Nephi 28:11: “they have all gone out of the way; they have all become corrupted”; “They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable” : Rom. 3:12.

37. 2 Nephi 28:15: “they shall be thrust down to hell!”; “And thou…shalt be thrust down to hell”: Luke 10:15.

38. 2 Nephi 28:18: “and great must be the fall thereof”; “and great was the fall of it”: Matt. 7:27.

39. 2 Nephi 29:11: “out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works”; “the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works”: Revelation 20:12.

40. 2 Nephi 31:10: “Follow thou me”; “follow thou me”: John 21:22.

41. 2 Nephi 31:14: “speak with a new tongue”; “speak with new tongues”: Mark 16:17.

42. 2 Nephi 31:15: “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved”; “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved”: Matt. 24:13.

43. 2 Nephi 31:18: “strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life”; “strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life”: Matthew 7:14.

44. 2 Nephi 31:21 “there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved”; “there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved”: Acts 4:12.

45. 2 Nephi 32:9: “pray always, and not faint”; “always to pray, and not to faint”: Luke 18:1.

46. Jacob 5:4: “hewn down and cast into the fire”; “ hewn down, and cast into the fire”: Matt. 7:19.

47. Jacob 6:5: “with full purpose of heart, and cleave unto God”; “with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord”: Acts 11:23.

48. Jacob 6:4: “he stretches forth his hands unto them all the day long; and they are a stiffnecked and a gainsaying people”; “All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people”: Romans 10:21.

49. Jacob 6:6: “today, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts”; “To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts”: Hebrews 3:7-8.

50. Enos 1:15: “Whatsoever thing ye shall ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive in the name of Christ, ye shall receive it”; “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive”: Matthew 21:22.

[_vessr]

Of more than 500 parallelisms in the Book of Mormon vis-à-vis the New Testament, it seems to me that none are more damning than the following three:

Mosiah 13:25: “they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments”; “they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostle and elders”: Acts 16:4. [“for to keep” is an odd word choice, and to be translated from the reformed Egyptian to capture the same terminology from the New Testament makes me a disbeliever.]

Alma 40:13-14: “the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil -- for behold, ... they chose evil works rather than good ... Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for [OF] the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them” [“for of” was in the 1830 version, just like the New Testament version]; “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries”: Heb 10:26-27. [“looking for of,” which was in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon is too exact a word pattern to be coincidence it was used also in the “fearful looking” in Alma 40 that we see in Hebrews 10. The fact that later editions took out “of” in “for of” does not make it less damning.

3 Nephi 20:24: “yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have testified of me”; Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days: Acts 3:24. [Samuel is never mentioned in the Book of Mormon, except for Samuel the Lamanite, who showed up in Helaman and his prophecies showed up in 3 Nephi, including discussion by the Savior three chapters later in 3 Nephi 23. What are the odds that this identical wording would be used by the Savior in both the Old and New World with a people in the New World who would be more focused on Samuel the Lamanite?]

So, have it, anyone, and remove the stumbling block before my eyes, if you can.

[_Res Ipsa]

vessr, I'll puzzle on this and let you know what I think. I'm not wedded to a position. Here's why I'm skeptical about parallels: First, what constitutes a relevant hit is subjective. Second, the human brain is lousy at taking chance into account. Third, I can't think of a good benchmark to test all of this. Given two books of scripture of the length of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, what are the odds of parallel phrases or sentences occurring? I don't know and I'm having trouble thinking of a similar test. Finally, specifically to this case, we know Smith wasn't literally translating from one language he knew to another that he new. So, if the Book of Mormon is a translation, it's God doing the translating. And how in the world would we know whether God would choose to use phrases and sentences identical or similar to language in the Bible. Reading the mind of god seems to me to be a tricky proposition. ;-)

ETA: vessr, I don't' think it's a matter of removing stumbling blocks. It's a matter of trying to assess evidence, figure out what, if any conclusions can be drawn, and analyzing the strength of the inferences. My personal conclusions are not based on a single "slam dunk" piece of evidence. It's a reasonable thing for people to disagree on the importance of evidence and the strength of the conclusions that can be drawn from it.

[Guest]

vessr, I'll puzzle on this and let you know what I think. I'm not wedded to a position. Here's why I'm skeptical about parallels: First, what constitutes a relevant hit is subjective. Second, the human brain is lousy at taking chance into account. Third, I can't think of a good benchmark to test all of this. Given two books of scripture of the length of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, what are the odds of parallel phrases or sentences occurring? I don't know and I'm having trouble thinking of a similar test. Finally, specifically to this case, we know Smith wasn't literally translating from one language he knew to another that he new. So, if the Book of Mormon is a translation, it's God doing the translating. And how in the world would we know whether God would choose to use phrases and sentences identical or similar to language in the Bible. Reading the mind of god seems to me to be a tricky proposition. ;-)

Brad, I will take on each of your points and address them as best I can:

First, what constitutes a relevant hit is subjective.

I agree, but I think that dozens, if not hundreds, of the parallelisms I have found are direct hits, including the three above.

Second, the human brain is lousy at taking chance into account.

Agree, but if there is a God, he has given us a mind that, based on logic and reasoning, could come to the conclusions that I have; but the same is true of your mind--you could, based on logic and reason conclude there are no, or are very few, parallelisms.

Third, I can't think of a good benchmark to test all of this. Given two books of scripture of the length of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, what are the odds of parallel phrases or sentences occurring? I don't know and I'm having trouble thinking of a similar test.

I think your third proposition is really combining your first two propositions, which I've answered based on my logic and reasoning.

Finally, specifically to this case, we know Smith wasn't literally translating from one language he knew to another that he new. So, if the Book of Mormon is a translation, it's God doing the translating. And how in the world would we know whether God would choose to use phrases and sentences identical or similar to language in the Bible. Reading the mind of god seems to me to be a tricky proposition.

True, but consider the three above that stand out most to me. Would a loving God, who is merciful, I would think, to the least of us, permit those propositional and Samuelite exactitudes (sp?) to fool us? I'm borrowing from another writer above; but I don't think so. I'd like to hope I won't rot in hell for a thousand years because I couldn't overcome those and some other parallelisms.

[_Res Ipsa]

vessr, are you getting these parallels from a website? If so, I can look there to see all 500. But for tonight, I'm beat. I need to puzzle for a while. :-)

[_vessr]

vessr, are you getting these parallels from a website? If so, I can look there to see all 500. But for tonight, I'm beat. I need to puzzle for a while. :-)

No, not exactly. I'm the only one I know of who has done these as parallelisms and tried to determine as many as possible that are not cross-referenced in the Book of Mormon to the Bible. But there are websites that include almost all of the examples, in a different way. They are websites that show how the Bible is in the Book of Mormon that at least I've looked at and, in many cases, used to help me put my list together, going through all of them to make my list as complete as possible.

Get some sleep. When you awaken, I look forward to a more detailed response from you.

GOOD NITE.

[_Tobin]

I think you are missing the point. 17th Century English is the language that religious texts (primarily the Bible) were commonly in in Joseph Smith's day.

A very good reason to doubt the Book of Mormon and think of Joseph Smith as a huckster. Give it some thought, Tobin.

I've thought about and I fail to see any reason that would necessarily lead me to that conclusion. Would you care to elaborate? You do realize we have very specialized forms and vocabularies in English depending on what we are talking about. For example, law, many of the sciences including medicine, and other fields borrow heavily from Latin and older English forms as well. I see no difference between that and religious speech (or text in this case) that borrows heavily from an older and more formal English (and even some Latin too). In certain instances the language in the Bible is more precise than English spoken today is or even as was common in Joseph Smith's day.