for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stories

[_Harold Lee]

LOL so you guys subvert, character assassinate him, and never resolve any of the concerns that caused the 'drifting in the first place' (and still does for many mormons- this isn't about just him). You make up this Mormon vs antimormon dichotomy, and expect him to play sides?

He is certaintly capable of speaking for himself but my take is JD doesn't care about sides. He cares about people and truth. Joining a clown science crew and distorting science and history deceptively like artists is not going to legitimately help anyone.

[_Madison54]

Rollo, the critics or Mormon haters bombarded the church with hateful emails even though these people never read the piece in question.

What are your sources here, why me? How many emails? Do you have any quotes? Who in the COB has gone on the record to attest to the existence of this flood of emails?

Please share; I seriously want to know.

why me is asking for help over on MAD, he just posted this:

I am of the opinion that there was also an email campaign against Dan, Louis, Bill and Gregg. Am I wrong about this? I had the impression that john's supporters and the critics were emailing the MI, BYU or the church about MI under Dan et, al. Am I wrong about this?

Pretty funny.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

You have absolutely NO evidence that the Church was "bombarded by hateful emails" nor any evidence of "hate spewed" about DCP and others. Stop exaggerating and stick to the facts. Everyone here would "tolerate" a well-reasoned and researched scholarly paper -- Smith's essay was none of these things. It was libel, pure and simple.

This tension and clash of ideologies within the Maxwell Institute came to a head when an anonymous source inside the Institute leaked material to Dehlin, advising him that Gregory Smith, one of the co-editors of the Mormon Studies Review, had prepared a detailed, heavily-referenced critique of Dehlin’s online material and podcast series. Dehlin responded by e-mailing a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy in late March and asking “if this is this something that you feel is appropriate for FARMS to do?” Noting that his source reported that the Institute was preparing a “hit piece” against him, Dehlin denounced the article (which he had not then, and still has not read) and warned, “If such a piece is, indeed, in the works — I would like notice so that I can contact Elder [Apostle] as well. My guess is that he wouldn’t approve of this either.”

According to a source close to the controversy, shortly after this e-mail exchange (in which Peterson and other Mormon scholars were included by carbon-copy), Peterson was made away of a top-level BYU administrator requesting that the article not be published. Peterson and his team complied, and prevented the article in question from being published. Shortly thereafter, rumors began spreading wildly on the internet regarding the content of Smith’s review, the alleged involvement of General Authorities, and, later, the reason behind the dismissal of Peterson as editor of the Mormon Studies Review, with Dehlin actively participating on different message boards and Peterson responding on his personal blog.

http://thestudentreview.org/controversy ... professor/

Do you really believe that the critics only conducted their hate via the internet message boards? Read between the lines.

I don't know what lines you're reading between, but I see nothing in your quote that provides any evidence for your claim that the Church was "bombarded by hateful email." Again, keep to the facts!

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Do you really believe that the critics and john's friends would remain silent during this 'dirty, nasty, affair?'

Just curious -- why did you reference Oliver Cowdery's characterization of the relationship between Joseph and Fanny Alger?

[Guest]

I think john that you were the problem because you drifted like a jellyfish on the open sea. Sure you helped people. Not doubt about it. But then you did an about face and went the other way...and led people out. And now you are back and maybe you will get some people back in the church. And thus, the problem. You became the pied piper. You will need to take responsibility for this. I am glad that you are back but a piece about you and your work still needed to be written. Do you see anything in Greg's piece that you agree with? I am sure that you do.

I am getting really tired of this accusation.

Those who listen to Mormon Stories are adults. They are capable of making their own decisions and John Dehlin, in no way whatsoever, can be held responsible for the choices and actions of others.

You make it sounds like Mormon Stories has some magical quality that creates either believers or apostates depending on John's mood. This is nonsense and I'm tired of Dehlin being blamed for the choices other rational adults have made.

If you have a problem with some of John's positions then fine. But trying to lay the actions of others at his feet is nonsense.

It is utter nonsense to blame Dan Peterson, John Dehlin, or anyone else for leaving the Church. Adults make their own choices and they, alone, should be held responsible.

But perhaps you think Mormon Stories listeners are plainly stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves.

*sigh*

Lets look at Don Bradley. He left...wrote critical material about the church and now he is making up for it and he is doing a great job. Can you do the same?

Don isn't "making up" for anything. He's producing interesting scholarship just like he did while outside the Church. I'm happy for both Don and John. They have found their place within the Church and speaking quite frankly, why me, your attitude is antithetical to creating a welcoming environment.

 So he told them this parable: 4 “Which one of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the one that is lost until he finds it? 5 When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders and rejoices. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (Lk 15:3–7). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

You are not rejoicing. You are gloating. It's disgusting.

18 I will get up and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me like one of your hired hands.” ’ 20 So he set off and went to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion; he ran and put his arms around him and kissed him. 21 Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly, bring out a robe—the best one—and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 And get the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; 24 for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found!’ And they began to celebrate.
25 “Now his elder son was in the field; and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 He called one of the slaves and asked what was going on. 27 He replied, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fatted calf, because he has got him back safe and sound.’ 28 Then he became angry and refused to go in. His father came out and began to plead with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Listen! For all these years I have been working like a slave for you, and I have never disobeyed your command; yet you have never given me even a young goat so that I might celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came back, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fatted calf for him!’ 31 Then the father said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found.’ ”


The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (Lk 15:18–32). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Take note that the stalwart brother is the "bad guy" in this story.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Sadly, I sim[p]ly haven't seen him, nor Greg Smith, call you a pathetic person or a pathological deceiver, no?

I guess you missed the part in the essay where Smith referred to Dehlin as a "sociological apostate"? (See Dubious Review at 81-82).

[_stemelbow]

I guess you missed the part in the essay where Smith referred to Dehlin as a "sociological apostate"? (See Dubious Review at 81-82).

No, I remember it. I simply don't see it on the same level either. Apostate, though holding a negative conotation to believers, means one who renounces their faith. It seems like Dehlin has done that a time or two.

Is it really on the same level?

[Guest]

William Schryver wrote:

If I were Greg, I would only respond to the "review" on the condition that the cowardly "Rollo Tomasi" attach his real name to it.

Daniel "Who? Me?"" Peterson wrote:

That's unlikely to happen. These folks have always published their smears anonymously.

Besides, Kishkumen, my Malevolent Stalker, and "Rollo Tomasi" are so precisely identical, ideologically, that it's really hard to know how many distinct people actually stand behind their "names."

[_Mayan Elephant]

William Schryver wrote:

If I were Greg, I would only respond to the "review" on the condition that the cowardly "Rollo Tomasi" attach his real name to it.

oh, what a hoot.

nevermind the substance or content.

[_mormonstories]

I think john that you were the problem because you drifted like a jellyfish on the open sea.

Feel free to mock my journey if you wish.

Having a faith crisis is really, really hard. Doing it in public, while sincerely trying to help others along the way -- is even harder.

I don't apologize for my journey. And frankly, I think that one of the biggest failings of FAIR/FARMS/Maxwell is their inability to truly empathize with the disaffected. Frankly, you fit right in.