Exploring the Secret History of the Church

[_Quasimodo]

Quasimodo

I truly feel humbled and honored that someone who has achieved God status would condescend to welcome someone who has nursery status.

My suppositions will always be packed with lots of documentation, but that will not mean they are not subjective, speculative opinions of a religious heretic.

I also appreciate the reminder that people who frequent this board are of superior breeding and intellect.

I will try to watch my P's and Q's

Thank you

Watcher

Your welcome, Watcher.

This may surprise you, but the "God" title is honorary. We don't actually have any divine powers. In fact, some of us have more than a little trouble typing. It only indicates that we spend too much time hanging out here.

[_Roger]

This may surprise you, but the "God" title is honorary. We don't actually have any divine powers. In fact, some of us have more than a little trouble typing. It only indicates that we spend too much time hanging out here.

Blasphemy.

[_Franktalk]

Watcher,

I am reading all of your posts and links. I will ask questions when I have a wider understanding of your beliefs.

I am a Mormon who knows that the LDS church contains a core of doctrine called by Peter as the present truth. It is included in the early works. But it also is wrapped in comments of men so it has errors. I have been studying the early church to sort out with the help of the Spirit what is the restored gospel. So I am delighted to see your work. The LDS church suffers drift from correct doctrine just as all churches drift. That does not make the good works of the church any less good works.

When you get done I would like to share where the Spirit has led me in recent years. It has been quite the trip.

[_just me]

Watcher!!!! I used to follow your blogs. It's great to see you here!!!

[_Watcher]

Now that I am back from a three day celebration of Mrs Watchers birthday, I feel like I need three days to recuperate from the vacation.

I want to thank sleepyhead for bringing up the transfiguration of Brigham Young and associated questions, it has brought up some other great secret historical issues that should be addressed in detail. I'll try to work them into this little exercise if I can.

vessr- I really appreciate and admire your willingness to climb into the rabbit hole with me and to examine the bizarre string of events as a critical thinker even though you do not consider yourself to be a believer.

You are correct about the fact that I believe that Joseph's polygamous marriages were an integral part of the issue that Oliver was dealing with, however, the story-line takes a little different direction than what you are speculating.

I hope you will continue to humor me and go a little further down the rabbit hole with me.

moksha- Anyone who follows me down this rabbit hole far enough will understand why I do not believe any human being living today has received the 2nd comforter or their calling and election... furthermore, anyone living today who believes they have sacrificed all things, probably does not understand what the phrase means. (I apologize for sounding so harsh. That statement is not directed at any specific person, it is just a general truth that I happen to believe.

Franktalk- Thank you for your willingness to investigate new ideas. As Paul says, we should all be willing to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

Thank you for your response. I would love to respond to any comments or questions you may have.

justme- Thank you for such a warm welcome. May the force continue to be with you.

Hopefully tomorrow or the next day I will have the time to provide a detailed explanation of what I feel the answers to the original questions I posed are, along with the documentation.

I do not anticipate a positive response to what I am about to present. In my opinion, the scenario I am going to present will be shocking and offensive to the majority of both apologists and skeptics.

Nevertheless, after I have completed historical event number one regarding the secret that Joseph and Oliver shared, if there is even one person that wants me to continue providing the listing of secret historical events, I will be happy to do so.


Watcher

[_Franktalk]

Watcher,

Not so sure I will be shocked. I am already aware of the church going their own direction, away from the direction given by the Lord. This is just a repeating pattern that follows all history. What would be shocking to me would be to find that any church truly follows the commandments. In my view the LDS church is as close as one may get for the moment so I am a member and work good where I can. For the most part I have a great deal of respect for the members but have realized some time back that the leadership has drifted and the foundation of the church is not taught. So sad to see. But it is what it is.

Those who have problems with the church in some cases have a valid argument. I can understand the arguments but reject how most have dealt with the problem. I think it is a measure of their faith. I think that if we are truly guided by the Spirit then the failings of man are expected. And we do not run from them.

[_Franktalk]

Watcher,

Do you know where I can find the original Temple endowment? I have been curious about this for some time.

[_Watcher]

The original endowment spoken of in the scriptures is an event, not a ceremony.

It was an event that was promised in conjunction with the Kirtland Temple and having to do with endowing God's servants with power from on high so that they could preach the fulness of the gospel in power.

Therefore, there is no text having to do with a ritualistic ceremony. It simply has to do with the transferal of power from the heavens.

You can read about what God has to say about the endowment in the following passages

Sections 38:32,38, 43:16, 95:8-9 105:11-12

In my series where I critique the book "The Savior in Kirtland" by Karl Anderson, I am going to embed a pdf with a rather detailed chronology of events having to do with the restoration of the 3rd and highest (Melchizedek) Priesthood (office of High Priest that was restored at the Morley Farm) and the associated endowment those who were both "called" and "chosen" were seeking.

It should be finished within a few weeks and will be linked to the following post:

http://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2 ... part-four/

If you are referring to the Masonic endowment that originated during the Nauvoo era, that Brigham Young claimed that Joseph commissioned him to complete, that contains the oath of vengeance, signs, tokens, swearing by the neck, etc., etc., I am not sure if anyone can agree on what the text of the original version is, however, last time I checked, there is an abundance of information on the internet regarding current and recent texts. These can be Googled.

This site has an informative timeline showing major changes in the endowment that might be of interest to you.

http://www.ldsendowment.org/timeline.html


Sorry I could not be of more help, the masonic temple ritual is of little interest to me.

[_Franktalk]

Watcher,

Thank you so much. You have saved me so much time. When I get done looking everything over I am sure I will have questions.

I received my Temple recommend but never went. I was waiting for the Holy Spirit to tell me to go. That was about a year ago. They have expired.

Frank

[_Watcher]

Please understand that I am not giving counsel about whether you or anyone else should go to the temple or not.

I believe it is wrong to give counsel "...man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—"

I was simply sharing what little information I had on the topic you were inquiring about and acknowledging that the reason I don't have much information handy about the masonic endowment is because it has not been something of pressing interest for me personally compared to many other topics.

May the Lord bless you as you search things out and hopefully it was your recommend that has expired and not the Holy Ghost.


Watcher