Exploring the Secret History of the Church

[_Bazooka]

Fusion, Mormonism is a fascinating, sometimes therapeutic topic of conversation and discussion for people who feel they have been brought up in a culture and have since discovered all was not what they were told it was. God and religion is likewise a catalyst for some interesting philosophical chats.

You have to keep in mind that Mormonism for a lot of people was their whole life. It's where their friends, families, work colleagues, romantic entanglements etc all happened. It was where they were drilled that Mormonism was the only true Church. Etc Etc. When people discover things that cast doubt about this foundation it's a massive shock to the system that needs some explanation. There is no vehicle within the culture for adequate discussion about these controversies and problematic historical facts. If there was, boards like this wouldn't get the traffic. That's why I'm here. And I really enjoy it.

[_Fusion]

Thanks Bazooka. I accept that, however, based on my story, which is similar to yours- ie I have almost no Mormon friends, very very few- and most are catholic. I am the only member in my family, who of course are catholic. I don't do any Mormon cultural events...or social things. To quote Paul Toscano, (I believe) 'I didn't embrace Mormonism so i could race with a spoon in my mouth with an egg on the end of it...'

And I don't find any therapy whatsoever in anything catholic. When one really sits and studies the Book of Mormon, the Old and New Testaments, the D&C and the amazing Pearl of Great Price, the journey is simply astounding. The cultural and social aspects of any religion does nothing to my spirit. And, yes, I am an extremely social person!

Fusion

[_Franktalk]

Fusion,

I am not one for evidence since a walk in faith is a walk in faith but every once in a while it is nice to read a personal account of history that reveals what we already know is true. Some evidence can expose the modern coverup of data and actual history of the past. If you have never read James Adair's book "The History of the American Indians" I suggest you do.

It was written in 1775. It shows how the American Indians had many Jewish traditions before they were reeducated by Europeans. James spent 40 years as a trader with the Indians in America.

Since this a history thread of the church I decided to share this.

[_Fusion]

Thanks Franktalk,

I have read similar books but not that one. To be honest, I have absolutely no problem with 'feeding the faith' with any good book. The fact that we modern humans (in the last 100 years or so and ESPECIALLY in the last 20-30 years) have come to believe everything that is fed to us by those who have taken so much of it and compressed it to tiny summaries, leaving out the important and essential things, and usually fuelled by a thriving conspiracy somewhere beneath the surface, is insane. Books like Adair's, is pure gold. If we want those diamonds, we either need to pay for them with a gigantic price, or, dig for them ourselves. I am happy to be armed with my own spade. Thank you for suggesting that. it will further confirm my beliefs in the American Indians' House of Israel heritage. Especially those of the Great lakes area in the early 1800's before they were moved so tragically during the heartbreaking 'Trail of Tears'...

Thank you very much, once again
Fusion

[_Fusion]

Additionally-

I recently came across something very interesting- a book called 'The Temples of Tenessee' which is about the amazing temples found in the mississippi area in the early 1900's, which they destroyed when doing land development. Ironically, both Memphis and Tennessee are words that link to the Egyptian...and the temples found there, which no one seems to know about anymore, but was once big news, were of Egyptian origin.

I think Wayne May, the archeology fanatic has mentioned they on his youtube videos. there are about 3-5 videos of his on youtube and they are an absolute MUST for anyone interested in the archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon, the Nephites and Lamanites. I recommend it without reservation...

Fusion

[_Watcher]

There is a very interesting secret having to do with both the history of the church and also the history of American Government that really applies to this thread. I do not have any plans on including it in this series as one of my 20 or 30 historical issues, however, since there is an interesting development pertaining to it going on right now, I thought I would throw it out there for anyone interested in pondering it.

Joseph Smith and the early saints were told to go to the Ohio where the LAW would be revealed. (section 38)

They were told that by going to the Ohio and getting the LAW (section 42) they would be protected from a secret combination that was already organized and seeking to destroy them.

One of the interesting things about Ohio is that, that state was perhaps the most vigilant in ratifying, publishing and upholding the "original 13th Amendment" which would have prevented the secret combination that currently controls our country and the globe from gaining the power it now has.

Anyway, a popular conspiracy board currently has a fascinating thread going about the amazing original 13th amendment and a proposed New Hampshire bill having to do with it acknowledging the reality of its existence as a valid ammendment. (currently tabled)

For those interested, here it is

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 182821/pg1

Here is the bill New Hampshire has produced and tabled

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legisla ... HB0638.pdf

Additional reading

http://www.barefootsworld.net/real13th.html


The very fact that this information is gaining a little exposure at this time, is in my opinion a sign of the times pointing to the prophesied time when all "bonds" will be broken and those who don't even know that they have been in bondage and captivity will have the opportunity of liberty.

[_Albion]

Bazooka and Albion,

In no way do I mean to sound rude, so please don't take what I am about to say. I am just sincerely very confused why, if you both believe that the Book of Mormon is fantasy, would you spend time and effort in cognitive thought at a place called 'Mormon discussions'? To put this in the light I am trying to express, I am a former catholic. At 16, after years of doubts from the time I was as litle as could be, I just knew without any more convincing necessary, and without support or prodding from anyone whatsoever by family or friends, catholic or non-catholic, that there was no way in this universe the catholic church was the Lord Jesus Christ's church. I knew this in mind and heart, by feelings as well as by study of it's history, once I got old enough to investigate these extremely negative feelings. Yet, I have never once been to any catholic or ex-catholic websites. It has simply never occurred to me to tell them they are wrong, or more importantly, to confirm each day that my decision all those years ago was the right one. When I meet catholics I never go down that path because it makes no sense for me to walk in their pathway at all. I looked far out of the catholic 'box', and having finally found what my Spirit was yearning for from the time I was born, I had no interest in any of it anymore, and NEITHER did I have the inkling to be in that environment. It's not unlike a reformed alcoholic hanging around at bars with his old buddies who like nothing better than the bottle- it simply makes zero sense to me. The ex-alcoholic is usually amazed at the new lease on life, lives for good food, exercise, the great outdoors and the uplifting company of those who have no link to his past drunken life. Thus, for me, and once again I make a point of stating that this is not meant to be rude or have any sense of arrogance, but why on earth are those of you who are convinced it's all a lie and a scam, and even Satan's work, and Joseph Smith being satan's follower...what keeps you coming to places like this??

Please enlighten me. I am here because of one thing and one thing only- I LOVE the Restored Gospel and the absolutely riveting history that is hidden thereof. I LOVE the Book of Morn immensely...it saved my life, literally. I LOVE Jesus immensely, and God the Father just as much. And I am fascinated with that man who truly has good and evil spoken of him like absolutely no other human on the planet- Joseph Smith. I have had some amazing spiritual experiences that are very real (no, I have NOT seen the Lord, nor an angel- just want to be clear about this now), and I have no doubt, though I did many years ago when I began this journey, that the Book of Mormon and it's mission, is 100% true.

Your turn...!

Watcher: There are two essential reasons why I am here. The first is contained in and summed up in Matthew 28:19, the Great Commission which I believe is binding on all Christians. The second is a result of living around Mormons for many years and seeing how lost they are and how caught up they are in a religious system that does not preach the Biblical Christ nor complete salvation in him only. Forgive my directness but your original post on this thread is to me a perfect example of where Mormons place their interest and emphasis....they can converse lengthily on such topics but rarely in my experience do they center on the heart of the Gospel which is salvation (and I use the word in the Biblical sense and not the limited sense of Mormonism) in Christ alone and his sufficiency. Full and complete joy comes in Christ alone...not in all the gospel addons that Mormonism teaches. No where is this more clearly demonstrated that in Mormon "worship" services where typically Christ gets a mention only at the end of prayers or in passing.

I think, too, that while your experience moving from Catholicism to Mormonism has some validity you appear to be under the impression, as many Mormons are, that somehow here is the little old Mormon Church just ambling along minding its own business, not hurting anyone, and those nasty Christians just won't leave it alone. More than 50,000 "missionaries", most knocking on the doors of churched people, put the lie to this claim. From the viewpoint of the Christian world it is Mormons who are the predators and I would remind you that it was Joseph Smith who launched the assault on Christiandom when he declared it an "abomination" and all those who professed it "corrupt". Hardly the way to go about winning friends and influencing people.

I don't in any way doubt your sincerity of belief...sadly my experience on this board leads me to believe Mormons doubt mine. I have always tried to keep my arguments on scripture but it wouldn't take much research to demonstrate the numerous personal insults that have come my way. Unfortunately, I think we can both agree that sincerity in and of itself proves nothing.

I think even suggesting that Joseph Smith has had more "good and evil" spoken about him than anyone on the planet is a closeted view. I suspect that I could stand on a main street in virtually any capital of the world and would be hard pressed to find one person from any ten people selected at random who would even know his name. Likely right now Dawkins would more aptly fit the bill in religious circles. In any event, such a forecast from Smith would be easy to make given the outrageous things he was saying. No prophetic ability there. No different, I think, than the outrage generated by the Beatles when they made their claim to be more popular than Jesus some years ago. They at least had some support for their claim given the time and place.

I am afraid I cannot agree with you on your other points...I respect your right to believe in the things of Mormonism but I also reserve the right to disagree. I am equally sure that the Gospel did not need to be restored since it never left...that the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity...that prophets in the sense of Moses are not needed today because that was once the way God spoke to man but today has spoken through his Son....what more could he possibly add? I will agree that Mormonism has a spirit about it...I just don't believe it is the Holy Spirit.

None of this means, of course, that we can't be civil in our discussions nor that meeting in everyday circumstances we couldn't be friends. I have many friends who are Mormons...I have worked with them...I have hired them in my own small business...I share many values with them but our views part when it comes to God's word.



Fusion

[_Watcher]

" Forgive my directness but your original post on this thread is to me a perfect example of where Mormons place their interest and emphasis....they can converse lengthily on such topics but rarely in my experience do they center on the heart of the Gospel which is salvation"

I never presented the topic of this post to be about the gospel or about Christ.

A person can have a deep relationship with Christ and his gospel and be walking in the spirit, and still have related interests.

Your remarks show how completely out to lunch you are about Mormons and their interests.

Your statement about my topic and post being where most Mormons place their interest and emphasis is mystifying to me.

Mainstream Mormons have absolutely no interest in this topic. That is exactly why these historical issues are NEVER spoken of in church or by LDS authors, etc. and this is why these issues remain a secret to most main stream members of the church even though they are easy to find and in plain site.

On my blog I have spent much time speaking about true biblical Christianity and about the true Christ and about the true spiritual rebirth and salvation. Forgive my directness, but you do not appear to be qualified to judge me on these things.

[_Albion]

Watcher: My post was in no way intended as a judgement of you and I apologize if you saw it in that light. I included in my statement that is was something that "is to me" and was a viewpoint that comes to me through my personal experience. You are entitled to disagree with my finding but you cannot say that it is something that does not stand out "to me". It might not have been the best example but I have been around Mormons long enough and heard enough Mormons to know that an expository preaching on Christ is a rarity...up to and including Mormon general conference. By comparison with Christian churches there is very little preaching of Christ in Mormon churches...that is my experience and I stand by it. At the risk of being called a liar once again, I recall a time when I asked some Mormons why, if they claimed their church was Christ's church that bore his name, supposedly the only "true church", they did not talk about Christ more the way Christian churches do. The one response that stood out to me was the person who said: "Oh, other churches talk about him a lot because that's all they've got." He then went on to list all the things Mormons have that Christian churches don't...including genealogy, welfare farms, priesthood and so on.... Well, if Christ is all I have,praise God for that because he is sufficient.

[_Watcher]

"Oh, other churches talk about him a lot because that's all they've got."

LOL it really is embarrassing how little Christ is focused on, and spoken about, and ultimately, how little he is worshiped, in the LDS culture.

On that we can agree on.

However, you and I can disagree on where the true biblical church is today.

You think you are part of it, I believe it is in the wilderness and about to come forth.

May we both have a happy ending and find ourselves both in the grace of God after the dust settles.

While a good protestant sermon is usually much more edifying and more focused on Christ than a typical LDS sunday talk is, apostate Christianity is still just "a sounding brass, or a "tinkling cymbal" and is basically just theory. It is missing the major fruits that must accompany the true gospel and the true church of Christ.