When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian too?

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_Bazooka
_Emeritus
Posts: 10719
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:36 am

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
Bazooka wrote:In actual fact "Mormons" believe they are the only true Christians and the rest of Christendom is in a state of apostasy, right?


yes, and i believe i stated that position, earlier, quite clearly here viewtopic.php?p=699099#p699099


So when you say Mormons are Christians, you don't mean it do you.
You mean Mormons are the only true Christians and all other Christians are in a state of apostasy.

When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fulness of the gospel.

http://www.LDS.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng

From which we can only conclude that Christians cannot acknowledge "Mormons are Christian too" because Mormons don't believe Christians are Christians.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _subgenius »

madeleine wrote:A question: What do Mormons believe the "Gospel of Jesus Christ", to be/mean?


http://www.LDS.org/topics/gospel?lang=eng
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _subgenius »

Albion wrote:Since it is the Mormon Church and its members who constantly cry out "me, too" I think it a fair assumption that they do "want to".

CFR

Albion wrote:It is only in recent years that Mormons have tried to stress their "christianity" as opposed to identifying themselves as purely Mormon. Much of the focus of Mormon promotional materials is aimed at establishing the idea that they should be perceived as a Christian church thus breaking down barriers to their message that might be conjured up under the label Mormon. This whole debate became a hot topic in the late 70s when a Christian coalition in, I believe, Arizona began an extensive ad campaign stressing that they were not Christians and that unsuspecting Christians should beware. Until that time the Mormon Church was quite content to emphasize the difference. Slowly Mormon terminology has changed to reflect this desire to be perceived as Christian. I am not saying the Mormon Church wants to enjoy fellowship and communion with Christian churches but I think it suits their "missionary" purposes to blur the line over the term.

It is interesting to note that the Mormon "cry out" that you mention above is not a public one...it is internal...likely only something that circulates around members...not as if anyone is seeing commercials on TV or in the paper about Mormons being christian too...and why is that?...my opinion is that because of the negative condemnation from other churches. Thus this "cry out" is merely meant to boost moral, to remove the self-doubt that may be occurring among a few members who, for whatever reason, find themselves being barraged with such elitist accusations...believe it or not, not all Mormons are confident, not all Mormons are secure, and some Mormons need to be reassured that the false accusations from the bitter hearts in their community are unfounded.
For example, not every Mormon, or even non-Mormon, would realize that the vitriol often found in your posts is usually inaccurate or heavily biased though you propose it as "facts about Mormons".
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:So when you say Mormons are Christians, you don't mean it do you.
You mean Mormons are the only true Christians and all other Christians are in a state of apostasy.

your skills at redundancy and restating the obvious are admirable.

Bazooka wrote:From which we can only conclude that Christians cannot acknowledge "Mormons are Christian too" because Mormons don't believe Christians are Christians.

yes, it is rather like you being considered the judge of who is or is not a Mormon.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Albion
_Emeritus
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _Albion »

It is interesting to note that the Mormon "cry out" that you mention above is not a public one...it is internal...likely only something that circulates around members...not as if anyone is seeing commercials on TV or in the paper about Mormons being christian too...and why is that?...my opinion is that because of the negative condemnation from other churches. Thus this "cry out" is merely meant to boost moral, to remove the self-doubt that may be occurring among a few members who, for whatever reason, find themselves being barraged with such elitist accusations...believe it or not, not all Mormons are confident, not all Mormons are secure, and some Mormons need to be reassured that the false accusations from the bitter hearts in their community are unfounded.
For example, not every Mormon, or even non-Mormon, would realize that the vitriol often found in your posts is usually inaccurate or heavily biased though you propose it as "facts about Mormons".[/quote]


If it were not a public one I doubt that I, and other observers, would have even noticed it since we do not spend our time within the Mormon religious bubble and yet there it appears . Glad to see that perhaps you are reading my posts. You are perfectly free to respond to my claimed inaccuracies as you see fit...I usually try to keep my posts and opinions on topic rather than resorting to the personal attacks on the messenger that those with differing opinions so often resort to when they run out of arguments. Glad, too, to know that as opposed to me you have no bias whatsoever.
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _subgenius »

Albion wrote:It is interesting to note that the Mormon "cry out" that you mention above is not a public one...it is internal...likely only something that circulates around members...not as if anyone is seeing commercials on TV or in the paper about Mormons being christian too...and why is that?...my opinion is that because of the negative condemnation from other churches. Thus this "cry out" is merely meant to boost moral, to remove the self-doubt that may be occurring among a few members who, for whatever reason, find themselves being barraged with such elitist accusations...believe it or not, not all Mormons are confident, not all Mormons are secure, and some Mormons need to be reassured that the false accusations from the bitter hearts in their community are unfounded.
For example, not every Mormon, or even non-Mormon, would realize that the vitriol often found in your posts is usually inaccurate or heavily biased though you propose it as "facts about Mormons".



If it were not a public one I doubt that I, and other observers, would have even noticed it since we do not spend our time within the Mormon religious bubble and yet there it appears . Glad to see that perhaps you are reading my posts. You are perfectly free to respond to my claimed inaccuracies as you see fit...I usually try to keep my posts and opinions on topic rather than resorting to the personal attacks on the messenger that those with differing opinions so often resort to when they run out of arguments. Glad, too, to know that as opposed to me you have no bias whatsoever.[/quote]
edited for courtesy:
It is interesting to note that the Mormon "cry out" that you mention above is not a public one...it is internal...likely only something that circulates around members...not as if anyone is seeing commercials on TV or in the paper about Mormons being christian too...and why is that?...my opinion is that because of the negative condemnation from other churches. Thus this "cry out" is merely meant to boost moral, to remove the self-doubt that may be occurring among a few members who, for whatever reason, find themselves being barraged with such elitist accusations...believe it or not, not all Mormons are confident, not all Mormons are secure, and some Mormons need to be reassured that the false accusations from the bitter hearts in their community are unfounded.
For example, what you offered so far is speculation and without support or evidence at a reasonable enough level to consider it as an argument. If you have sufficient evidence that would allow for one to reasonably conclude that Mormons "cry out" publicly for acceptance, then i would appreciate reading that evidence.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Albion
_Emeritus
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _Albion »

Very minimal effort produced the following as a sampling:

"Mormons Are Christians Too" by Don and Brannan Kingsdland

"Are Mormons Christian" by Stephen E. Robinson

https://www.Facebook.com/Mormons Are Christians Too

www.youtube.com/watch?v=We8j6urzWtU

www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Christian.shtml

Mormon.org/faq/mormon-christian

pinterest.com/chrrissiw/moremons-are-christians-too

www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-wh ... stians-too
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _subgenius »

Albion wrote:Very minimal effort produced the following as a sampling:

"Mormons Are Christians Too" by Don and Brannan Kingsdland

"Are Mormons Christian" by Stephen E. Robinson

https://www.Facebook.com/Mormons Are Christians Too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We8j6urzWtU

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Christian.shtml

Mormon.org/faq/mormon-christian

pinterest.com/chrrissiw/moremons-are-christians-too

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... stians-too

Hardly supports the chain of a "crying out". All you have done is support the notions in my post.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Albion
_Emeritus
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _Albion »

Well, I could spend all day adding to the list. There are plenty more but I doubt more would change your mind so the debate is pointless.
_Bhodi
_Emeritus
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:51 pm

Re: When will Christians acknowledge Mormons are Christian t

Post by _Bhodi »

Albion wrote:Since it is the Mormon Church and its members who constantly cry out "me, too" I think it a fair assumption that they do "want to". It is only in recent years that Mormons have tried to stress their "christianity" as opposed to identifying themselves as purely Mormon.


Not really. It is only that recently there has been an effort to define what the broader definition of Christianity should be without fully understanding Christian history. The historical Christian umbrella is fairly broad, but this is a threat to some people, who wish to redefine the term to fit only their specific definition.
Post Reply