A clear statement....

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_ludwigm
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: A clear statement....

Post by _ludwigm »

subgenius wrote: in my previous post on the matter:
"We spoke with a limited understanding"
You are true.
Why to suspect malignancy, when the explanation is a simple stupidity.

Can speak the prophets of The Only True Church with limited understanding?
According to Your "explanation" (copyright McConkie), they can.

Did they do that in the case of priesthood - and other things - for blacks?
According to Your "explanation", they did.
LDS First Presidency (George Albert Smith) wrote:“Your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and white races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs until now.... there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.”
by the way nobody knows that doctrine...



Did they do that in the case of polygamy?
John Taylor, September 27, 1886 wrote: My son John: You have asked me concerning the New and Everlasting Covenant and how far it is binding upon my people.
Thus saith the Lord All commandments that I give must be obeyed by those calling themselves by my name unless they are revoked by me or by my authority and how can I revoke an everlasting covenant.
For I the Lord am everlasting and my covenants cannot be abrogated nor done away with; but they stand forever.
Have I not given my word in great plainness on this subject?
Yet have not great numbers of my people been negligent in the observance of my law and the keeping of my commandment, and yet have I borne with them these many years and this because of their weakness because of the perilous times. And furthermore it is more pleasing to me that men should use their free agency in regard to these matters.
Nevertheless I the Lord do not change and my word and my covenants and my law do not.
And as I have heretofore said by my servant Joseph all those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law.
And have I not commanded men that if they were Abraham's seed and would enter into my glory they must do the works of Abraham.
I have not revoked this law nor will I for it is everlasting and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof, even so Amen.



Can they speak that way now?
Or tomorrow? Or the day after tomorrow?
How can we determine - listening the conference talks - which sentence is a product of limited understanding, which is a product of divine omniscience?


-------------------------------------------------
glad to read that even our image-posting-impeded*** brethren can offer such a fine example of mistaking apples for oranges
No mistake.

Yes, there are apples, oranges and - to pick one other fruit - plums.
Different fruits, but all of them fruits.

They bring forth in different time.
Under Brigham Young, there were no negroes - under Thomas Monson there are no polygamists.

Some people don't like every fruit.
Probably no gay person was polygamist in the 1860s...

All of them fruits, maggoty products of the same gardeners.


*** Thank You for my epithet, my ellipse-hypertrophy-sufferer brethren.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Bazooka
_Emeritus
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Re: A clear statement....

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:If the changes were a result of divine intervention why wasn't God leading the way, instead of arriving late to the party?

i believe this was found in my previous post on the matter;
"We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't matter any more.”

if you have evidence to the contrary then please post it...otherwise concede that your opinion, like Bazooka/Drifting's, is based on cynicism and tin-foil hat conspiracy theories that, frankly, give the church a heck of lot more credit than it deserves....the amount of complex gambits and cleverly interwoven schemes that you guys imagine goes on behind closed doors is quite entertaining.

Now i have posted my evidence that concludes it was not due to "social pressure".....your turn.


Actually, you have posted evidence that admits it WAS due to social pressure.
Well played.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
_Emeritus
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Re: A clear statement....

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
subgenius wrote:[deleted]

"Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous" - Albert Einstein

“Why is Santa an anagram for Satan? I mean, besides the fact that both have the same amounts of the same letters. Just consider the many other similarities between the two figures: both of them are red, both of them like to laugh, both of them give presents to children and both of them are kings of an ungodly underworld of unspeakable horror and suffering. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.” - Sam Logan
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
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Re: A clear statement....

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
Actually, you have posted evidence that admits it WAS due to social pressure.
Well played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEjVpgLkeFg
Image
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_schreech
_Emeritus
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Re: A clear statement....

Post by _schreech »

I think its funny that SUBgenius thinks us "apostates" want to see the LDS church accept SSM....I hope the LDS church continues to fight and, like they did during the civil rights movement, hold out for another decade beyond societies acceptance of equal rights for a minority group seeking equality. I would love to see the LDS church struggle and lose intelligent members, BYU sports teams being boycotted, threats of tax exemption being revoked, etc...I, honestly, hope that the LDS church fights SSM to the bitter end forcing elohim to provide a new "revelation" in order to correct the misunderstandings of the past...elohim is an interesting god, always being swayed by public opinion.
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_subgenius
_Emeritus
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Re: A clear statement....

Post by _subgenius »

schreech wrote:...(snip)...elohim is an interesting god, always being swayed by public opinion.

since you made the claim perhaps you can do what others have yet to do with regard to that very same claim....CFR, please.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Bazooka
_Emeritus
Posts: 10719
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:36 am

Re: A clear statement....

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
schreech wrote:...(snip)...elohim is an interesting god, always being swayed by public opinion.

since you made the claim perhaps you can do what others have yet to do with regard to that very same claim....CFR, please.


Just because you don't accept the references doesn't mean they haven't already been given.

Nobody is going to force your head out of the sand, you will have to do that for yourself.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: A clear statement....

Post by _subgenius »

schreech wrote:I think its funny that SUBgenius thinks us "apostates" want to see the LDS church accept SSM....I hope the LDS church continues to fight and, like they did during the civil rights movement, hold out for another decade beyond societies acceptance of equal rights for a minority group seeking equality. I would love to see the LDS church struggle and lose intelligent members, BYU sports teams being boycotted, threats of tax exemption being revoked, etc...I, honestly, hope that the LDS church fights SSM to the bitter end forcing elohim to provide a new "revelation" in order to correct the misunderstandings of the past...elohim is an interesting god, always being swayed by public opinion.

You do bring up an interesting observation...many posters who share your opinion, as expressed sarcastically here, seem to enjoy the notion that the mob rules...that the "pressure of society" - the wisdom of the collective is some how responsible for "change" in the church. It is as it is currently with the fleeting political favor enjoyed by LGBT...it is fleeting because it is essentially crowd sourced...it is not based on principle but rather based on popularity...kinda like the Justin Bieber of political "causes".
yet t really boils down to a belief in mob rule...you seemingly find the whim and will of the mob to be the true zenith of human progress...but it is really just mob rule.

Close the city and tell the people
That something's coming to call
Death and darkness are rushing forward
To stamp light from the wall!

Oh! You've nothing to say
They'll drag you away!
If you listen to fools,
The mob rules, the mob rules

Kill the spirit and you'll be blinded
The end is always the same
Play with fire, you'll burn your finger
And you'll get hold of a flame, oh!

It's over, it's done
The end is begun
If you listen to fools,
The mob rules
You've nothing to say
Oh, They're breaking away
If you listen to fools

Break the circle and stop the movement
The wheel is thrown to the ground
Just remember it might stop rolling
And take you right back around!

You're all fools!
The Mob Rules!
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/black+sabb ... 19377.html

Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mob_Rules
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: A clear statement....

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:Just because you don't accept the references doesn't mean they haven't already been given.

Nobody is going to force your head out of the sand, you will have to do that for yourself.

your speculation is not a reference.
I provided actual statements that state what you claim is not true...you have provided nothing.
But please, keep on beating that drum...it just makes you a drummer
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Themis
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: A clear statement....

Post by _Themis »

subgenius wrote:You do bring up an interesting observation...many posters who share your opinion, as expressed sarcastically here, seem to enjoy the notion that the mob rules...that the "pressure of society" - the wisdom of the collective is some how responsible for "change" in the church.


I don't enjoy it. I like many just observe that the church changes tend to reflect pressures from the rest of society to change. If the church really is just a man-made organization like you think all the other church's are then this is what I would expect. I wouldn't expect it if it is lead by God. Is the priesthood ban a mistake of men? If no then I have to wonder why God would ban a group of people. Seems no good reasons, and only an excuse of men. If it is, then I have to wonder why God is, as some have said, so late to the show all the time.
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