LDS leader has been ensconced

[_Albion]

I think that Mormonism encourages the idea that Christ's Church is an institutional or corporate entity rather than a body of believers...called out ones in its original form. Most Christians I know are not caught up in the idea of "true church" in terms of the particular church or denomination they attend and would claim the title "christian" before designating themselves Baptist, Methodist or whatever. The essential truth of Christian conversion and salvation is found in the person of Jesus alone and not in the particular doctrine of a church or denomination....and I would submit that most Christian churches agree on those fundamentals. I believe that finding salvational direction in life can only be found in the person of Christ...in right relationship with him. Churches are only relative in so far as they provide a place of fellowship and learning with other believers and point to that saving and emulating relationship with Christ. Seeking him first and foremost is the way.

[_Mary]

I think that Mormonism encourages the idea that Christ's Church is an institutional or corporate entity rather than a body of believers...called out ones in its original form. Most Christians I know are not caught up in the idea of "true church" in terms of the particular church or denomination they attend and would claim the title "christian" before designating themselves Baptist, Methodist or whatever. The essential truth of Christian conversion and salvation is found in the person of Jesus alone and not in the particular doctrine of a church or denomination....and I would submit that most Christian churches agree on those fundamentals. I believe that finding salvational direction in life can only be found in the person of Christ...in right relationship with him. Churches are only relative in so far as they provide a place of fellowship and learning with other believers and point to that saving and emulating relationship with Christ. Seeking him first and foremost is the way.

Albion, I mostly agree with you. Do you think that a member of the LDS church can be a Christian first and Mormon second? I ask because that is what a tbm friend once said to me. That was their outlook.

I think there are many that find God and Jesus through the LDS church, albeit with some (imho) distortions. Same with other denominations.

[_Mary]

Though having just spent the week with some very devout Catholics and Anglicans, I do think they hold to some dogmatic views, ie Grace over works, and ideas on the trinity that they feel excludes Mormons from the title 'Christian'. I disagree with that stance.

[_Albion]

You ask a difficult question. I believe that there are many within the Mormon Church who sincerely believe and follow the example of Christ and in that regard their walk is little different from that of Christians generally. Having lived in Utah for more than 30 years my experience is that LDS people identify themselves mostly by their church affiliation first rather than by connection to Christ. I can't tell you how many times over the years I have been asked: "Are you a ember of "the" church?" That makes it difficult for me to say that they are able to place their claim to be Christian ahead of their identity as a Mormon. I think, though, that most Mormons would argue that they are one and the same. I think that where the difficulty comes in for traditional Christians is reconciling Mormon teachings on the nature of God (an exalted man) and the idea that Jesus is a created being, literally the firstborn son of this man-god and one of his wives. To me, a fundamental question is: Can a person have a right relationship with God and his Son Jesus Christ if the very essence of their identity is based on a flawed premise? Obviously, I don't expect Mormons to agree that their view is flawed but that is how it is seen from the outside looking in.

By way of explanation. I have often been called "anti-Mormon" by those who disagree with me. I reject that term. I have friends who are Mormon, I have worked with Mormons and for Mormons, I have employed Mormons in my own business. I am not opposed to Mormons as such but I do disagree strongly with Mormonism and it is that which I oppose. But of course, we then come back, in a way, to your original question...likely they would see the two as the same thing.

[_Mary]

 

To me, a fundamental question is: Can a person have a right relationship with God and his Son Jesus Christ if the very essence of their identity is based on a flawed premise?

I think so. I mean the trinity for instance, was a dogma that was fought for and a way of bringing a diverse and disparate group of people together under the Emperor, and even then it was still controversial. The canon was fought for. Who knows if the right ideas won the day.

Christianity was originally a Jewish sect. Even for Paul it was a way of bringing in gentiles into Judaism albeit with a relaxed outlook for those gentiles over events and beliefs that even the Jerusalem Jesus followers saw as essential to being 'right' with God.

It's incredibly messy.

[_Albion]

All of this to me presumes, as Mormonism asserts, that God who planned for the advent of his Son and the atonement over thousands of years, pouring out his grace on mankind, couldn't keep theology straight even for a relatively short period of years after his coming. I have a problem with that as it suggests a not very careful or clever God. Not the God in whom I place my trust.

[_Mary]

All of this to me presumes, as Mormonism asserts, that God who planned for the advent of his Son and the atonement over thousands of years, pouring out his grace on mankind, couldn't keep theology straight even for a relatively short period of years after his coming. I have a problem with that as it suggests a not very careful or clever God. Not the God in whom I place my trust.

Well, maybe amongst the fluff, the really important stuff survived. Love God, love neighbour as self. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself.

[_Albion]

But isn't knowing and understanding the nature of God and his Son important stuff? I think it is of essential importance.

[_Mary]

But isn't knowing and understanding the nature of God and his Son important stuff? I think it is of essential importance.

God is love.

[_Mittens]

All of this to me presumes, as Mormonism asserts, that God who planned for the advent of his Son and the atonement over thousands of years, pouring out his grace on mankind, couldn't keep theology straight even for a relatively short period of years after his coming. I have a problem with that as it suggests a not very careful or clever God. Not the God in whom I place my trust.

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... lling.html

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... inity.html