Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

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_MeDotOrg
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _MeDotOrg »

So, is this home-grown terrorism or Islamic infiltration?

The answer may be 'yes'.

There has been some speculation that these two may have been part of a terrorist cell. I don't think their actions AFTER the bombing look like they were part of a cell.

1. Both should have worn sunglasses to the bombing, and Dzhokar should have turned his cap around.

2. Their actions after the bombing. Go to parties? Rob a convenience store? Doesn't sound like the plans of dedicated terrorists.

3. And finally: WHY? How could bombing the Boston Marathon be a boost for Chechnya?

On the one hand, the bombs were assembled with a degree of sophistication. On the other hand, the bombs were made with readily available equipment. On one hand, you had the brothers complaining of no money. On the other hand, they were able to amass a pretty good arsenal.

Obviously we don't have all the facts, but the Boston Bombing could born of the clash between modern cultural nihilism and a desperate wish to have identity and purpose.

From the London Times:
Gaby Hinsliff wrote:he Boston bombers may have been driven more by a warped desire for notoriety than by real fanaticism

Zachary Adam Chesser was just an average kid from North Virginia, a high school athlete apparently destined for a blameless suburban life. Nothing in his high school yearbook suggested he was the student most likely to end up serving 25 years for terrorism offences, Yet that’s exactly what happened. And what’s unusual is how articulately Chesser describes his astonishingly fast transition from all-American boy to radicalised extremist. As the West struggles once again to understand the post 9/11 generation of homegrown terrorists from which the Boston marathon bombers seemingly emerged, his story is worth recounting — not least for the light it sheds on why they are so difficult to stop.

Had Holden Caulfield stumbled across radical Islam, the result might have sounded not unlike the 37 pages of letters Chesser wrote to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, attempting to explain. All teenage bravado on the surface, with flashes of fragility underneath, they dwell less on his sudden conversion to Islam than on how he finally discovered something that he was good at and for which he got gratifying amounts of attention. This wasn’t so much terrorism as promoting it via social media (Chesser was eventually picked up trying to get to Somalia but maintains that he was expecting not to fight, but to continue blogging from the jihadi frontline).

What’s odd is that he sounds disturbingly like any other 22-year-old trying to get fame by posting attention-seeking clips on YouTube. It’s just that his channel, like that of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, dealt in jihadi rantings, not skateboarding dogs.

Chesser boasts at self-aggrandising length of his blog traffic and YouTube rankings, his “above average” communications skills, his strategy to reach the widest audience: he was posting online “with the intention of playing off of the egos of various counter-terrorism analysts. I was somewhat successful in building audience and influencing them.” To Chesser, this is the cutting edge of terrorism: not fighting, but “open source jihad”, the spewing out of political theory, religious zealotry and ideas for wreaking destruction from which others can create what they will.

It’s not just about using the internet to foment real-life violence (although Chesser is best known for trying to incite hatred against the creators of South Park over a joke about the prophet Muhammad) but about seeing online battle as an end in itself. For that reason, radicals increasingly don’t plot in password-protected chatrooms, but brazenly in the open, in the public square of social media, since the whole point is to attract attention — even if it all feels faintly theatrical and unreal. “Essentially you have Hollywood meets al-Qaeda,” writes Chesser. It’s an oddly prescient description of the aftermath of the Boston bombings, as the two brothers panicked: the robbed convenience store, botched carjacking and chaotic shootout with police seem more influenced by bad movies than jihadi theory.

Logically this new openness among wannabe terrorists should make life easier for the security services: yet they are swamped with information, too little of it useful. How to extract the one dangerous needle from a haystack of offensive but mainly harmless terror trolls spouting claptrap online? It’s not easy to tell which of the endless dumb teenagers posting that 9/11 was an “inside job” is a future Dzokhar Tsarnaev – not even, perhaps, if you know them well. The wife of a British wannabe bomber was acquitted last week of any involvement in his plot after telling the court that while her husband had indeed talked about taking up jihad, she had dismissed this as “crap”, finding the whole conversation so boring that she ended up texting a friend instead of listening.

And while both Zachary Chesser and Tamerlan Tsarnaev quickly showed up on the radar — both experienced an FBI “disruption”, being hauled in and warned — this seems to have had tragically little effect.

So are there lessons to draw for preventing another Boston? One, perhaps, is that there is no point in a man’s life when he is more dangerous to himself or to others than during the now-prolonged transition from boy to man. Chesser’s was an all-American success story until the end of high school: he flunked out of higher education quickly, never got a proper job. By 26, Tamerlan Tsarnaev was unemployed with a failed marriage; his brother, more successful, was still chopping and changing college courses.

The security services can hardly track every adolescent struggling to find his feet in the adult world. But a concerted public policy focus on those who aren’t safely making the leap — most of whom won’t become terrorists but may well become petty criminals, absent fathers, Saturday-night brawlers, low-level but persistent spreaders of misery — couldn’t hurt. What we are dealing with feels less like pure fanaticism and more like an incoherent rage against a life that hasn’t lived up to expectations, with radical Islam providing a convenient hook for many grievances.

In an odd sense the Tsarnaev brothers seem less like terrorists than like perpetrators of American school shootings, narcissists and nihilists with a burning desire for notoriety and vengeance — usually against their peers. There is something curiously personal about how, unlike the 7/7 or 9/11 bombers, they struck on their own doorstep. As one of his teachers said of the younger Tsarnaev: “This kid blew off the legs of two children, in their twenties, of a faculty at the school. He bit the hand that fed him.”

Yet afterwards they slotted back into their Boston lives; Dzokhar even turned up at a student party. Were they too arrogant, or too unimaginative, to flee the manhunt? Or on some level did they want to be caught, even martyred?

Tamerlan may have died charging the police but he is, of course, no martyr, not even on al-Qaeda’s own questionable terms: martyrdom, like terrorism, requires bearing witness to a cause, making a political point. That’s why suicide bombers record videos, and conventional ones issue long statements claiming responsibility. Yet from the Boston bombers so far all is incoherence and silence — a week on, we have little idea what message, if any, they meant to send.

And so, while the solidarity of black-banded runners and defiant spectators at yesterday’s London Marathon was a healing reminder of all that is good and altruistic in our world, the questions remain. We must rather grimly hope that the younger Tsarnaev brother lives long enough to answer them.
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_Mayan Elephant
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Mayan Elephant »

bcspace wrote:Thank you for confirming the absolute Rightness and Justness of our cause. The Left has brought this whole world-wide situation down on all of us via their appeasement, looting, hand-ringing, name-calling, racism, moral equivalency and relativity, and inability to apply discipline and stand up for correct principles and doctrines. They have no one to blame but themselves.


your cause? this terrorism is because the left refuses to stand up for correct principles and doctrines?

you are a bigger asshole than i thought, dumber than i thought, and crazier and more dangerous than i thought.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
_Droopy
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Droopy »

Mayan Elephant wrote:
bcspace wrote:Thank you for confirming the absolute Rightness and Justness of our cause. The Left has brought this whole world-wide situation down on all of us via their appeasement, looting, hand-ringing, name-calling, racism, moral equivalency and relativity, and inability to apply discipline and stand up for correct principles and doctrines. They have no one to blame but themselves.


your cause? this terrorism is because the left refuses to stand up for correct principles and doctrines?

you are a bigger asshole than i thought, dumber than i thought, and crazier and more dangerous than i thought.



Undergirding all of the four-letter name calling aimed at bc around here is the very uncomfortable truth (which will not be a problem for those bathed in the bliss of ignorance) that the Left - including the American Left - would have handed the United States and the West to the Soviets on a silver platter, apple between upper and lower jaws, several generations ago had they been able to do so, and the response of the Left today to totalitarian Islamism is little different in essence than their response to the international communist movement from the thirties through the end of the Cold War.

The Left's romantic infatuation with the "totalitarian temptation" combined with its equally destructive romantic infatuation with primitive societies and their rustic, traditional, pre-democratic, pre-industiral, and anti-liberal "lifeways" is a heady brew, to be sure. The Islamists fit the bill very nicely. They're anti-democratic and anti-liberal (in the original sense) to the core, dark skinned, poor, ignorant, uneducated and, like many U.S. and European leftists, anti-American. They're really the most natural of allies, just as the "great Soviet experiment" was once the natural foil to the American Dream.

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_Mayan Elephant
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Mayan Elephant »

droopy. you think that anyone here that called or would call bcscpace a nutcase would have also handed over the united states to the soviet union? dude, you may have just taken the pole position in the crazy 500. you damned dumbass.
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_cinepro
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _cinepro »

One thing I haven't heard discussed is whether there is less resistance to the idea of cameras in public places in the wake of the bombing. Suddenly, the thought of having every square inch of popular public areas covered with high resolution security cameras doesn't sound so bad.
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Analytics »

cinepro wrote:One thing I haven't heard discussed is whether there is less resistance to the idea of cameras in public places in the wake of the bombing. Suddenly, the thought of having every square inch of popular public areas covered with high resolution security cameras doesn't sound so bad.

For as long as I can remember, I haven’t been able to understand why people refer to public surveillance as a privacy issue. The alleged right to walk down Main Street without being videotaped and identified by computer algorithms is a right of anonymity, not a right of privacy. Why would somebody expect privacy when doing the decidedly public act of doing something in public?
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Res Ipsa »

cinepro wrote:One thing I haven't heard discussed is whether there is less resistance to the idea of cameras in public places in the wake of the bombing. Suddenly, the thought of having every square inch of popular public areas covered with high resolution security cameras doesn't sound so bad.


I think that discussion is coming. I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some polling on the issue in the next few weeks.
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _ajax18 »

Why would somebody expect privacy when doing the decidedly public act of doing something in public?


I wish there were more cameras out as well. The argument they gave me against them when my car windshield was busted by thieves was cost and that criminals would break the cameras.
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _Tarski »

bcspace wrote:The question was asked:

"How many Boston Libs spent the night wishing they had an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine?"

The answer:

"All of them."


You have no idea about the hope of the liberals. What you do repeatedly is immoral and a lie.
I might as well say that the conservatives were hoping that the bomb would kill black people. I would have as much basis (none).
You aren't a mind reader.
But you are a liar of major proportions. No liberal that I am aware of hoped any such thing as you imply. You pulled it out of your ass as usual.
Despicable.
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Re: Boston Bombers: Liberal Hopes Dashed

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Analytics wrote:
cinepro wrote:One thing I haven't heard discussed is whether there is less resistance to the idea of cameras in public places in the wake of the bombing. Suddenly, the thought of having every square inch of popular public areas covered with high resolution security cameras doesn't sound so bad.

For as long as I can remember, I haven’t been able to understand why people refer to public surveillance as a privacy issue. The alleged right to walk down Main Street without being videotaped and identified by computer algorithms is a right of anonymity, not a right of privacy. Why would somebody expect privacy when doing the decidedly public act of doing something in public?


True, but it's like with calling America a "Democracy", and it's values Democratic. While it is to a point, we all know it's a Republic and not a Democracy.

But, you are actually kinda wrong. The right of "anonymity" is in fact related to ones "privacy", so technically speaking, privacy still actually applies. Being "anonymous" is a form of privacy, even if one is in public. You walk down the street, many, most, or any may not know who you are, but you put up a camera, and suddenly someone CAN and will know who you are. You do not have true freedom and privacy if someone can know who you are and where you are at all times.

Further, there is another issue. Haven't you guys watched movies, shows etc. on this? When government gets so big and so intrusive, then too many people have power to then abuse that power. What if some or all of government fully turns fascist? How would a regular person be able to fight against such evil, they can't get away from it. Check points in every community, cameras everywhere, you won't be able to do anything, and will be ENTIRELY subject to the will of those in power. Do you really "trust" their "benevolence" long term???
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