Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

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_subgenius
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Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _subgenius »

...are fruity indeed

Nidal Malik Hasan - Fort Hood shooting, jihobbyist - registered to vote in Virginia as a Democrat
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt - Columbine - parents were Democrats
Cho Seung-Hui - Virginia Tech shootings - registered Democrat, wrote hate mail to Bush
James Holmes - Colorado theater shootings - registered Democrat, occupy, and staff worker on Obama campaign
Adam Lanza - Sandy Hook shootings - registered Democrat, anti-christian

none were members of the NRA and none were conservative...but all needed medication and all were lunatics...
and i am not trying to claim that Democrats create homicidal maniacs....they just attract them.

Since clearly the above mentioned incidents, as well as many others, share the common thread of mental illness why do the Democrats spend so much time, money, and effort going after the guns rather than actual problem?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gop-probe ... le/1296256
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/high-d ... /id/441767
http://www.naturalnews.com/035812_Pfize ... usion.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... l9CqDiANHE

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_MeDotOrg
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _MeDotOrg »

So you believe that because the Obama Administration is in bed with big Pharma that they have refused to focus any efforts on mental illness in addressing gun violence?

Please provide specific examples of mental health legislation that have been proposed by Republicans that has been shot down by Democrats to protect big Pharma.
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_subgenius
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _subgenius »

MeDotOrg wrote:So you believe that because the Obama Administration is in bed with big Pharma that they have refused to focus any efforts on mental illness in addressing gun violence?

Please provide specific examples of mental health legislation that have been proposed by Republicans that has been shot down by Democrats to protect big Pharma.

my question was aimed at why the Democrats do not raise the banner of mental health reform over these, and other, violent tragedies?...but instead they go after gun regulation which has been proven by common sense, academics, and good science to have little, if any, influence on these same tragedies - which ironically are used to support their regulation argument in a lowest common denominator kinda way.
It seems that if their concern was the "health" of the "people" and their concern was to "prevent" these "senseless tragedies" that their focus and efforts would follow what, they claim, is the impetus of their platforms - intellect over emotion, progress over regress, informed compassion in lieu of careless reactions.
One must admit that the Democrats' primary focus has not been on mental health with regard to this issue but rather on gun control....which would have done nothing to prevent or even limit the above listed tragedies.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
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_MeDotOrg
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _MeDotOrg »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:Please provide specific examples of mental health legislation that have been proposed by Republicans that has been shot down by Democrats to protect big Pharma.

my question was aimed at why the Democrats do not raise the banner of mental health reform over these, and other, violent tragedies?...but instead they go after gun regulation which has been proven by common sense, academics, and good science to have little, if any, influence on these same tragedies - which ironically are used to support their regulation argument in a lowest common denominator kinda way.
It seems that if their concern was the "health" of the "people" and their concern was to "prevent" these "senseless tragedies" that their focus and efforts would follow what, they claim, is the impetus of their platforms - intellect over emotion, progress over regress, informed compassion in lieu of careless reactions.
One must admit that the Democrats' primary focus has not been on mental health with regard to this issue but rather on gun control....which would have done nothing to prevent or even limit the above listed tragedies.


subgenius wrote:Since clearly the above mentioned incidents, as well as many others, share the common thread of mental illness why do the Democrats spend so much time, money, and effort going after the guns rather than actual problem?


By 'the actual problem' I assume you mean mental illness. Again, I would ask:

What efforts are NOT being proposed (by either Democrats or Republicans) to combat mental illness with respect to gun violence?

How is this related to Obama and big Pharma?
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
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_subgenius
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _subgenius »

MeDotOrg wrote:By 'the actual problem' I assume you mean mental illness. Again, I would ask:

What efforts are NOT being proposed (by either Democrats or Republicans) to combat mental illness with respect to gun violence?

none.....no effort at all....refusing guns to mentally ill persons is not a treatment plan.

however, the executive branch and senate are currently under, mostly, democrat party control...and they are suggesting, via promotion of the mentioned tragedies, that gun regulation is the core issue....when clearly it is not....it is a mental health issue, first and foremost. Background checks would have had no influence on those incidents.

MeDotOrg wrote:How is this related to Obama and big Pharma?

He talked a big talk against big Pharma and then made a "compromise" that was questionable and covert...and now, with an opportunity to address the role of big Pharma and mental health (a.k.a. Health care reform) he balks and walks away...choosing instead to promote an overt socialist principle.
Instead of recognizing the opportunity to make this incidents about how access to mental health care and the role of prescription drugs in that care, Obama chooses to beat an old drum....kinda like how W and company chose a scarcely related event to beat the drum of attacking Iraq.

So given that option and the President position of "leadership", i believe Obama has more skin in the game.....
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_schreech
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _schreech »

subgenius wrote:...are fruity indeed

Nidal Malik Hasan - Fort Hood shooting, jihobbyist - registered to vote in Virginia as a Democrat
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt - Columbine - parents were Democrats
Cho Seung-Hui - Virginia Tech shootings - registered Democrat, wrote hate mail to Bush
James Holmes - Colorado theater shootings - registered Democrat, occupy, and staff worker on Obama campaign
Adam Lanza - Sandy Hook shootings - registered Democrat, anti-christian


You will just sort of believe anything that the right wing media coughs up wont you:


1. Nidal Hasan (the Ft. Hood shooter) lived in either Virginia (his state of residence prior to being sent to Ft. Hood) or Texas, neither of which has partisan registration. Therefore the claim that he was a "registered Democrat" is false. I do not know if he voted or how he voted, but I do know that unless he was registered in a state in which he did not reside, that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE.

2. Since Virginia does not have partisan registration there is also no way to tell whether Seung-Hui Cho was a Democrat, but again because there is no partisan registration in the state we can say that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE. (Update: A more obvious point is that Cho was a resident alien, not a US citizen, so he was not eligible to vote in the US)

3. The allegation that James Holmes was registered Democrat was based on a Breitbart blogger Joel B. Pollack, who found voter registration records for a DIFFERENT James Holmes who was about the same age. Alex Jones’ Infowars and other right-wing websites then dutifully repeated the lie without verifying it. It was later determined that the Colorado Theater Shooter James Holmes was NOT registered to vote, as evidenced by this retraction: {Newly-released information on the suspect’s birthdate (which, as indicated in our initial report, was a slight mismatch), combined with new details Breitbart News has obtained about the suspect’s likely addresses, together suggest that the suspect may, in fact, not have been registered to vote.}. However, most of right-wing media continued to promote the lie without printing Breitbart sites retraction. The claim that James Holmes was a registered Democrat is FALSE.

4. The claim that Adama Lanza is a registered Democrat has been suggested based not on any evidence that he was registered as one, but on the rather dubious claim that because Connecticut has almost 2 to 1 Democratic registration over Republicans, he was probably a Democrat. (Claim: "Adam Lanza, NewtownConn murderer. Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by about a 2-1 ratio in Connecticut. The odds are therefore that the Lanza family are (sic) Democrats.") This of course is a bogus argument to begin with, but even if we were to make the claim that a mass shooter’s political affiliation must be the same as the majority of the people in his area, we can debunk this foolish idea by taking this shoddy analysis down to the local level. Yes, Connecticut voted for Barack Obama, BUT the city of Newtown voted for Mitt Romney. If we look at the results we find that Mitt Romney defeated Barack Obama in Newtown by 7451-6784 votes or 51.7 percent to 47 percent. Republican Senate candidate and Tea Party favorite Linda McMahon carried the city over Democrat Chris Murphy by an even larger margin. Add in the other information we have that Lanza’s mother was a “doomsday prepper” and a home schooler in a Republican-leaning city and we can pretty well dispense with the erroneous assumption that Lanza must have been a Democrat (UPDATE: According to at least one media source, Nancy Lanza was a registered Republican. The source does not provide a link, but the author of this article is seeking further confirmation). We can therefore claim that with no evidence to support the claim, the assertion that Lanza was a Democrat is not demonstrated and that in the absence of any evidence it is likely FALSE.

5. Klebold and Harris of course were not old enough to vote and they had no apparent political affiliation. Allegations that they came from families of Democrats or liberal progressives appear to have no sources to substantiate those claims. What little ideology the boys demonstrated owed mostly to an admiration for Timothy McVeigh not Ted Kennedy. Harris’ father was a retired Air Force pilot and Eric Harris wanted to join the Marine Corps. The boys lived in Littleton, Colorado a relatively conservative and affluent suburb of Denver. The claim that their parents were Democrats is UNSUBSTANTIATED. Any suggestion that the two boys were Democrats is demonstrably FALSE.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-idea-that-recent-mass-shooters-are-mostly-registered-democrats-is-a-myth
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_Doctor Steuss
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

While one of the biggest pushes for mental health parity came under Clinton (and then Bush with the MHPEA), Obama's administration was responsible for the rules that finally implemented the MHPEA (I think it was in 2010?). As far as Democrats not supporting mental healthcare reform, Patrick Kennedy has been a longtime vocal advocate (he gave a wonderful speach at a press conference for Silver Linings Playbook). Harry Reid has also been a longtime advocate for mental health awareness and treatment (having lost a brother to suicide) and was partially responsible for creating the Office of Suicide Prevention here in Nevada. Each year, Reid writes a very heartfelt letter to participants in AFSPs (recently taken over by NCSP) annual community walk.

Unfortunately, one of the things that will likely help the most (in my opinion) is the very thing that will be shunned -- Federal funds for mental healthcare. As it stands now, I qualify for SSDI. But, because I choose to work, I have to pay for all of my mental healthcare costs (which are about a third of my income) out of pocket. There is absolutely no resource available for me if I can no longer afford my mental healthcare. The only way I could receive assistance is if I was deemed to be an immediate danger to myself or others (and then, there would be no long-term care).

Right now, if an individual isn't insured, the administration of mental healthcare largely falls on the states. Nevada (in particular, Las Vegas) is not only notorious for basically having a revolving door at the county facility, but for turning people away when beds are unavailable. There is no long-term treatment plan beyond "here are some pills, come back each month and we will give you more."

I don’t know that this really has much bearing on the current conversation, but figured I’d offer up my anecdotal $.02.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_Brackite
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Re: Fruits of the Liberal/Progressive tree....

Post by _Brackite »

"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
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