25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

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_Droopy
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Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _Droopy »

beastie wrote:This what droopy thinks quote-mining looks like.

It's really funny to listen to some of you act as if you (or rather, your right-wing media conglomerates)


Fox is not right-wing. It does feature and utilize conservatives and libertarians in its programming much more that any other major mainstream media outlet, but its not conservative per se. Its owned by the Fox media/entertainment empire, which is basically as left-leaning as the rest of the mainstream media and pop entertainment corporate world. It saw a market, many years ago, that needed to be served, and begin doing so. The results are a major success story, especially as viewership of the standard network and cable mainstream media and readership of the major liberal major dailies plummeted over the last couple decades.

What does that leave? Let's see...the Washington Times and the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. Oh, and AM talk radio, a phenomena that has only existed since the early 90s. Everything else, the major daily newspapers, cable and network news, the morning shows, the news magazines, Hollywood and the arts, the music business, the foundations and academia are yours.

But back to the dispute at hand - let's take William Buckley as an example. He is a good example in many ways. While there is no doubt that the modern republican party has become home to a certain racist portion of the population who once made their homes with Southern Democrats,


You've provided not a shred of evidence thus far that this is a remotely credible assertion. Indeed, as I never get tired of pointing out, and as modern history bears witness, the only true remaining outpost of institutional, intellectual, and political government enforced racism in American society or political life is within the Democratic Party and among the American Left generally. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide here. The Left is also the only place where overt, blatant racist actions, statements, writings, and sentiments are not only tolerated, but celebrated and legitimized.

there is a much larger coalition that opposed the civil rights movement for other reasons, but which still translated into being on the wrong end of history, as Buckley himself later admitted.


Nice little dodge here, but I've already ferreted you out here, Beastie. Those misgivings, as the very article you quoted points out, and as I've pointed out time and again, turned out, as time passed, to have been quite prescient and well grounded.

Asked by Time in 2004 whether he regretted any positions he had taken in the past, Buckley said simply, "Yes. I once believed we could evolve our way up from Jim Crow. I was wrong: federal intervention was necessary."


This is a joke argument, Beastie, coming from a dog and pony philosophy. If Buckley was on the wrong side of history in some sense on this specific issue, it is the height of irony that the Left had become, by the middle of the seventies, the party, first of compensatory racial discrimination ("Affirmative Action") and then of racial balkanization, racial separatism, and ethnic chauvinism (Multiculturalism). In the meantime, it destroyed the inner city black family, substantially slowed black progress into the middle class, utterly destroyed public education among the inner city poor (while reducing it to facile mediocrity across the nation), and generated the entrenched, intergenerational black underclass, a phenomenon that hadn't existed among American blacks prior to the last third of the 20th century.

The problem with Buckley is that he made statements, sometimes at different points in his life, that can be taken to be totally opposed to racism, or tolerant of racism.


That's only a "problem" for a bomb-throwing polemicist. What it shows is that Buckley was a product, to a great degree, as are all of us, of his time, and that he grew (and rapidly) intellectually over time as his thinking and perspectives evolved.

This article does not support your tendentious, dogmatic claims about conservatives and race and in point of fact puts them, for all intents, to the torch while admitting that the past is the past and even some of the best minds of the conservative movement began with views that were embedded in the cultural contexts of their time. It also points out that certain central misgivings entertained by major conservatives (including Goldwater, who no one but an abject lunatic would assert had racist sentiments) were well founded.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _Droopy »

beastie wrote:Here is what I want you to admit.

You don't really read the replies people on the other side of an argument make to you. Perhaps you read a line or two, but then you simply launch into your canned diatribe. You don't really try to engage in the ideas of the other side.


No, I many times read entire posts, point by point, argument by argument, which is why it is my usual custom to respond by breaking posts into sections and responding to one argument or claim at a time, point by point or sentence by sentence.

It is true, however, that sometimes I feel no need to read an entire post in the sense of following all the links or even going over most of them. In almost all such cases, as in the case of the post in question, the substance of your main argument was fully subject to refutation and critique without following or even being aware of all your links (and I didn't even begin dismantling it, because frankly, it wasn't worth the effort).

In retrospect, you see in this article support for your excoriation of the conservative movement and sainthood of the Left. I see a nuanced criticism of Buckley as being both wrong and right and a product of his time and background and of the very early conservative movement as having both constitutional and philosophical problems with key aspects of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which is hardly tantamount to thinking of blacks as innately inferior).

In the meantime, the Democrats tried as hard as they could to sink the Civil Rights Act and then, after the sixties, when the party began its long and, ultimately, relentless move to the Left, they became the party of racial spoils and access to government as the alternative to the American Dream.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_beastie
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Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _beastie »

Droopy wrote:
No, I many times read entire posts, point by point, argument by argument, which is why it is my usual custom to respond by breaking posts into sections and responding to one argument or claim at a time, point by point or sentence by sentence.

It is true, however, that sometimes I feel no need to read an entire post in the sense of following all the links or even going over most of them. In almost all such cases, as in the case of the post in question, the substance of your main argument was fully subject to refutation and critique without following or even being aware of all your links (and I didn't even begin dismantling it, because frankly, it wasn't worth the effort).

In retrospect, you see in this article support for your excoriation of the conservative movement and sainthood of the Left. I see a nuanced criticism of Buckley as being both wrong and right and a product of his time and background and of the very early conservative movement as having both constitutional and philosophical problems with key aspects of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which is hardly tantamount to thinking of blacks as innately inferior).

In the meantime, the Democrats tried as hard as they could to sink the Civil Rights Act and then, after the sixties, when the party began its long and, ultimately, relentless move to the Left, they became the party of racial spoils and access to government as the alternative to the American Dream.


You didn't understand my point at all. Not at all. That's because you don't read my posts. You decide you have no need to do so.

You are trapped in the echo chamber of your own mind.

I'll give one salient example on the original thread. - which you, no doubt, won't read.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_Droopy
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Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _Droopy »

No, at this point I won't because you're acting like an obsessed, delirious lunatic trolling for polemical fodder, which I'm not disposed to give you.

I'm also weary, and have been for some time, of wading through the pathetic, condescending vomit spewed up by leftists far and near as they go among the liberal White Man's Burden, the hopeless, hapless, and helpless (until community organized) human beings they like to call "African Americans," feeding them, clothing them, "educating" them, aborting them, exempting the barbarous among them them from the laws of civil society, and excoriating those who excel and succeed as "Uncle Toms."

People like yourself brought the civil rights movement full circle, from colorblindness and the content of one's character to collectivist identity politics, racial separatism, and the primacy of the racial in-group over individual rights and individual citizenship.

Shame on you and on the rest of the Left for working so hard to destroy what so many gave so much to achieve.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_beastie
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Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _beastie »

Droopy wrote:No, at this point I won't because you're acting like an obsessed, delirious lunatic trolling for polemical fodder, which I'm not disposed to give you.

I'm also weary, and have been for some time, of wading through the pathetic, condescending vomit spewed up by leftists far and near as they go among the liberal White Man's Burden, the hopeless, hapless, and helpless (until community organized) human beings they like to call "African Americans," feeding them, clothing them, "educating" them, aborting them, exempting the barbarous among them them from the laws of civil society, and excoriating those who excel and succeed as "Uncle Toms."

People like yourself brought the civil rights movement full circle, from colorblindness and the content of one's character to collectivist identity politics, racial separatism, and the primacy of the racial in-group over individual rights and individual citizenship.

Shame on you and on the rest of the Left for working so hard to destroy what so many gave so much to achieve.


Trapped in your own mind. Hurts, doesn't it?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_bcspace
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Re: 25 Quotes from Black Conservatives

Post by _bcspace »

This is one of those fascinating posts that is met with ear-jarring peels of silence.

It happens now and then, and always, it seems, related to similar issues.


Indeed. However, blacks are joining the rest of us in civilization, by becoming conservative, a few at a time and we celebrate that.
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