Obviously their value as evidence is reduced by their lateness, but they do provide some evidence for the idea that Joseph and Sylvia conceived Josephine while Sylvia was separated from Windsor.
Don
Separated is not divorced and apparently Sylvia went back to her life with her husband as though it was not interrupted so she saw her self married to Windsor the whole time.
Obviously their value as evidence is reduced by their lateness, but they do provide some evidence for the idea that Joseph and Sylvia conceived Josephine while Sylvia was separated from Windsor.
Don
Separated is not divorced and apparently Sylvia went back to her life with her husband as though it was not interrupted so she saw her self married to Windsor the whole time.
Look, they were on a break, okay?
If only Ugo Perego hadn't had to dash off all sudden like....
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Thank you. I stand corrected. I'm interested in knowing what the evidence is that Sylvia didn't go back to Windsor until after Joseph was killed. I'm not seeing anything suggesting that.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Congrats on getting your show up and running again! I am nearly through with watching the whole season--it is the best thing on television.
I can't think of any source that says Sylvia stayed away from Windsor till Joseph died.
And I may actually be wrong in the detail I recall from those sources. They may not indicate that Sylvia and Windsor separated (though I believe at least one of them does). But there are definitely a couple (including one from Josephine) that connect Sylvia's sealing to Joseph with Windsor's excommunication. The implication, at least as I take it, is that Josephine understood Sylvia's marriage to Windsor to have been affected by his loss of status within the church.
I'll see if I can think of the other family source. I'm not sure whether it's in Brian's piece or not.
Don
DISCLAIMER: Life is short. So I'm here to discuss scholarship, not apologetic-critical debate.
Doesn't this establish the irrelevancy of the argument from the apologists that she was separated from her husband when she had "marital" relations with Joseph Smith? No one has suggested she and the husband to whom she was legally wed were ever divorced, right? So why all the smoke-blowing and misdirection from the mopes about whether there is evidence of a separation? Even if she were separated from her husband, if she was not divorced when she got knocked up by Joseph Smith, then what she and Smith did was adulterous, or at least sexually polyandrous--if we want to indulge the apologists' spin.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
I don't know if it does. In my history classes at college (which were not dealing with Mormonism), I learned that divorcing with one's feet was fairly common during the era. Until the advent of no-fault divorce, getting a legal divorce was an expensive and legally messy proposition. I would judge the apologists as being not off track, if not entirely correct, either.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
tagriffy wrote:I don't know if it does. In my history classes at college (which were not dealing with Mormonism), I learned that divorcing with one's feet was fairly common during the era. Until the advent of no-fault divorce, getting a legal divorce was an expensive and legally messy proposition. I would judge the apologists as being no off track, if not entirely correct, either.
That may make sense if a woman of those times wanted out of her marriage and that was the only option. But in Sylvia's case she didn't leave her marriage she just took a vacation from it to boink another guy. Even today in many circles having another man's baby when you're separated from your husband is at the least considered bad form. Marriage is pretty worthless if you can just say I don't want to be married to you right now instead I want to be married to that guy. And then turn around and say okay I'm done with him now want to be married to you again. Mormon marital history resembles day time talk television.
