Droopy wrote:Darth J wrote:1. We know that all your assertions about climate change prior to Adam and Eve exiting the Garden of Eden circa 6,000 B.C.E. are false, because there was no death for any form of life before the Fall.
There was certainly no death during the phase, or period in which the earth was in that state. The several hundred million years prior to the Edenic state are another question entirely.
No, I'm afraid that your church does not teach that. Your church affirmatively asserts that no form of life on this planet died until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
Book of Mormon Teacher Manual (2009)
“The plan required the Creation, and that in turn required both the Fall and the Atonement. These are the three fundamental components of the plan. The creation of a paradisiacal planet came from God. Mortality and death came into the world through the Fall of Adam. Immortality and the possibility of eternal life were provided by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement were planned long before the actual work of the Creation began” (in Conference Report, Apr. 2000, 105; or Ensign, May 2000, 84).
CES Manual: Old Testament, Section 2-16
"Adam was the first of all creatures to fall and become flesh, and flesh in this sense means mortality, and all through our scriptures the Lord speaks of this life as flesh, while we are here in the flesh, so Adam became the first flesh. There was no other mortal creature before him, and there was no mortal death until he brought it, and the scriptures tell you that. It is here written, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (Seek Ye Earnestly, pp. 280–81.)
Bruce R. McConkie, “The Caravan Moves On,” Ensign, November 1984
There is no salvation in a system of religion that rejects the doctrine of the Fall or that assumes man is the end product of evolution and so was not subject to a fall.
True believers know that this earth and man and all forms of life were created in an Edenic, or paradisiacal, state in which there was no mortality, no procreation, no death.
In that primeval day Adam and Eve were “in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.” (2 Ne. 2:23.)
But in the providences of the Lord, “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” (2 Ne. 2:25.)
By his fall, Adam introduced temporal and spiritual death into the world and caused this earth life to become a probationary estate.
Lesson 4: “Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened”, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual
The Fall of Adam and Eve brought physical and spiritual death into the world. Physical death is the separation of the body and the spirit that occurs at the end of our mortal lives......
To help explain that Adam and Eve did not sin when they partook of the forbidden fruit, read the following statement from Elder Dallin H. Oaks:
“It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality."
Bruce R. McConkie, “Christ and the Creation,” Ensign, Jun 1982
Mortality and procreation and death all had their beginnings with the Fall. The tests and trials of a mortal probation began when our first parents were cast out of their Edenic home. “Because that Adam fell, we are,” Enoch said, “and by his fall came death; and we are made partakers of misery and woe.” (Moses 6:48.) One of the most profound doctrinal declarations ever made fell from the lips of mother Eve. She said: “Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.” (Moses 5:11.)
And be it also remembered that the Fall was made possible because an infinite Creator, in the primeval day, made the earth and man and all forms of life in such a state that they could fall. This fall involved a change of status. All things were so created that they could fall or change, and thus was introduced the type and kind of existence needed to put into operation all of the terms and conditions of the Father’s eternal plan of salvation.
This first temporal creation of all things, as we shall see, was paradisiacal in nature. In the primeval and Edenic day all forms of life lived in a higher and different state than now prevails. The coming fall would take them downward and forward and onward. Death and procreation had yet to enter the world. That death would be Adam’s gift to man, and, then, the gift of God would be eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Thus, existence came from God; death came by Adam; and immortality and eternal life come through Christ......
Thus we learn that the initial creation was paradisiacal; death and mortality had not yet entered the world. There was no mortal flesh upon the earth for any form of life. The Creation was past, but mortality as we know it lay ahead. All things had been created in a state of paradisiacal immortality.
Lesson 6: The Fall of Adam,” Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3
Explain that physical death, known also as temporal death, was introduced into the world as a consequence of the Fall. As a result of the Fall, all people and all forms of life upon the earth must suffer a physical death, a separation of spirit and body.
Chapter 3: "The Lamb Slain from the Foundation of the World,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee
Besides the Fall having had to do with Adam and Eve, causing a change to come over them, that change affected all human nature, all of the natural creations, all of the creation of animals, plants—all kinds of life were changed. The earth itself became subject to death.
2. The fact that climate change has happened in the past does not address whether climate change is happening at a different rate now and for different reasons.
As a matter of logical rigor, that's quite true. Unfortunately, Darth, AGW is bereft of and/or has been empirically and theoretically falsified across the entire spectrum of all its major claims. Not one has held up to empirical scrutiny since the end of the 80s. If the climate is changing now, just over the last century, at a different rate (which we know it isn't, so that point is moot) or for different reasons than it has been changing for the last five hundred million years (driven by a trace greenhouse gas comprising 4% of the 2% of the atmosphere that is greenhouse gas, and then only by anthropogenic sources of CO2, which comprise about 3% of that 4%), then there must be empirical, quantifiable evidence to support such claims.
And that's where the rubber meets the road, because there is none, and never has been, and that's the scientific problem with DAGW/CAGW. The political and economic problems are another matter, and, although directly connected to the scientific problems (and corruption of a substantial portion of the earth science community), far vaster in scope and implications.
I snipped the rest of your usual irrelevant ad hominem verbiage for obvious reasons.
Yes, I hate when leftist secular anti-Mormon socialist liberals get all in that ad hominem thing and call people Johnnie Cochran and make fun of people's screen names and stuff like that. That's inconsistent with the rigorous philosophical output of scholars such as yourself.
So would you rate your expertise in science as greater than, equal to, or less than your expertise in law?