LDS things that are false if cafeteria Mo's are right

[_Darth J]

I love how Tobin disputes that these ancient prophets would have had divine knowledge revealed to them from God, yet he is perfectly willing to accept that an undead Jew teleported from Palestine to America to recite Isaiah.

And now he is simultaneously arguing the historicity of the Book of Mormon while asking how you could know Jesus said something just because it is in the Book of Mormon, or how you could know some ancient prophet existed without compelling historical proof he existed.

[_Gadianton]

Actually it doesn't.....

Adam and Eve were put into the Garden of Eden.
When they ate of the fruit they were cast into the Lone and Dreary world, and the way to the Garden the Tree of Life was blocked. Then very quickly out of no where Cain etc. has this big family.

In other words, there easily could have been a world separate from Adam's line that had already existed, that had men in it.

I know the "traditional" interpretations..... But, if you know the Apostles historical battles of this issue, you'll know that they've both acknowledged "neither" interpretation is actually official doctrine. They are interpretations.

The only actual doctrine is that Adam/Eve were God's chosen lineage people made in his image, spiritually begotten of him.
In fact, the Bible even seems to indicate these "other" men, in statements like, daughters of men, etc.

Let me see if I have this straight:

We've got Adam and Eve, on one hand, who were "chosen" by god, "made in his image", and "spiritually begotten". (and we know they happened to be white).

Then on the other hand we have Cain with his (typical?) "big family" living in "another world" prior to or parallel with Adam's world, men "not chosen" by god, not "in his image" or "spritually begotten" at all (since there is no other save God who can spiritually procreate), meaning they don't have souls in the sense we understand it. (and we know they happened to be black)

So this set of facts right here is the one thing we know is actual doctrine?

[_ludwigm]

...
1. The name is Gödel, not Goedel.
...

You must forgive him.

1. The "ö" is not part of the Reformed Egyptian alphabet.
2. Even it exists in German and Hungarian, no mishie can pronounce it correctly.

[_Tobin]

...
1. The name is Gödel, not Goedel.
...

You must forgive him.

1. The "ö" is not part of the Reformed Egyptian alphabet.
2. Even it exists in German and Hungarian, no mishie can pronounce it correctly.

[_Gadianton]

Wrong. I correctly said above what it was: you can't prove the consistency of a system. I haven't done the proof. Don't mess with an Asian kid math, Billy Bob.

Godel himself proved "the system" of first order logic is complete.

Intelligent Design and Creationism, which you believe in, isn't evolution. FYI.

[_SteelHead]

You have Jesus quoting Isaiah quoting Jesus..... And somehow.....


Jesus has the details wrong.

Tobin just went completely incoherent.

[_honorentheos]

To be fair, the umlaut "o" or "ö" can be rendered as "oe" and is common practice when typing on a keyboard that lacks the key. Rendering Gödel as Godel is wrong as the o and oe/ ö are pronounced different. If you can't make an umlaut, you should add the -e.

I don't know about Hungarian but the critique above regarding German isn't correct.

[_Brackite]

So what? This is something that Isaiah wrote. It is claimed that the Lord said this. Now ask yourself these questions: Were you there and did you hear the Lord say this to Isaiah? Were you there when Jesus Christ supposedly quoted these writings? This is not proof that Noah existed. Proof he existed would be some ancient artifact dating from when it was believed he lived (like a giant ark) or something that states his name on it and that he was a survivor from a catastrophic flood. That is the difference.

Is there more "proof" that Nephi, Alma and Amulek existed than Noah?

[_Tobin]

So what? This is something that Isaiah wrote. It is claimed that the Lord said this. Now ask yourself these questions: Were you there and did you hear the Lord say this to Isaiah? Were you there when Jesus Christ supposedly quoted these writings? This is not proof that Noah existed. Proof he existed would be some ancient artifact dating from when it was believed he lived (like a giant ark) or something that states his name on it and that he was a survivor from a catastrophic flood. That is the difference.

Is there more "proof" that Nephi, Alma and Amulek existed than Noah?

No. And that's my point. You are citing the Book of Mormon, a book that may be a work of fiction, as proof that Noah existed. It's completely unreasonable.

[_ludwigm]

the critique above regarding German isn't correct.