I Wonder?

[_beastie]

Since some of our posters need things spelled out very slowly, I'll be more explicit.

I would have had zero problems with GZ defending himself with his fists. This was a fistfight. The problem I have is when GZ decided to defend himself by killing TM.

Has our society reached the point where some people are so filled with hubris and bravado that they really feel justified in shooting someone for a punch in the nose? That type of bravado usually is a cloak for cowardice.

Have you ever been punched in the face, Beastie? By a male?

- Doc

No.

Is it your position that if someone is punched in the nose, that person is justified in shooting and killing the puncher?

[_beastie]

This is where the disconnect is happening. TM made it home. He came back to attack GZ. There was no reason, whatsoever, for this teenager to come back and attack a man. It's insanity, and no matter how much his defenders cry foul they can't explain why he came back. TM lost GZ. He lost him.

Think about that. There was no reason for him to come back. None. Whatsoever.

TM was afraid that GZ was a sexual pervert after him. Why in the world would he lead a sexual pervert to his home where his younger stepbrother was home waiting for him? His parents were out to eat, by the way.

[_ldsfaqs]

TM was afraid that GZ was a sexual pervert after him. Why in the world would he lead a sexual pervert to his home where his younger stepbrother was home waiting for him? His parents were out to eat, by the way.

Ya right..... The 6'3 near adult aged young man was "afraid" the 5'7 man in his 20's was a "sexual pervert".

And even if true, it still doesn't change that he LEFT the SAFETY OF HIS HOME, went back, surprised Zimmerman and assaulted him.

[_ldsfaqs]

No.

Then who are you to talk about fear and the threat of ones safety?

Is it your position that if someone is punched in the nose, that person is justified in shooting and killing the puncher?

Likely not for one punch, but even cops aren't "forced" to allow anyone to even come at them in a threatening manner to cause them harm (they are perfectly allowed to shoot), so why do you expect a citizen who isn't even trained, nor is it their job to deal with violent people to not be allowed to do similar?

Further, we aren't talking one punch here, and then the guy just minding his own business (because in that case him being shot would be retaliatory if after the event, thus wrong, unless it was done during the punch), we are talking about a violent beating, a fact you people ignore and think Zimmerman had no cause.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is where the disconnect is happening. TM made it home. He came back to attack GZ. There was no reason, whatsoever, for this teenager to come back and attack a man. It's insanity, and no matter how much his defenders cry foul they can't explain why he came back. TM lost GZ. He lost him.

Think about that. There was no reason for him to come back. None. Whatsoever.

TM was afraid that GZ was a sexual pervert after him. Why in the world would he lead a sexual pervert to his home where his younger stepbrother was home waiting for him? His parents were out to eat, by the way.

What?

Help me understand this.

- Doc

[_beastie]

What?

Help me understand this.

- Doc

On his phone call with Rachel Jeantel, she speculated that perhaps GZ was a sexual pervert, and that's why he was following TM. Whether or not he considered that before her suggestion, I don't know. But I do know that, with all the media attention kidnapping/sexual perversion gets in our society, that would likely occur to most people. His father and his fiance were eating out. TM was home alone with Chad Joseph, who was the fiance's son. Chad was in seventh grade at the time. They were playing a video game, and Chad asked TM to buy him some skittles. If I were TM, I would not lead someone who was following me TO MY HOME, especially when the only other person present at the time was a boy even younger than he was.

If TM did confront GZ first, which I've never been persuaded of and Jeantel's testimony contradicts, maybe he was doing all he could think of. The guy was determined to keep following him for reasons unknown to TM. He wouldn't want to lead him to his house. Maybe he felt like he had to be a man and confront the guy himself. Who knows. TM will never be able to tell us.

[_Gunnar]

From what I have been able to learn, so far, about the whole affair, I really don't see how the jury, in good conscience, could have reached any other verdict than they did. I don't think that one could reasonably say there was no reasonable doubt about GZ's guilt. All that is required for acquittal is a little bit of reasonable doubt about the guilt of the accused. Nor do I think that anyone not in attendance at the trial nor fully conversant with all the available facts can justifiably fault the jury for their decision.

Nevertheless, I don't think either TM or GZ was totally blameless for what happened. They both could have acted much more prudently than they did. GZ probably should have heeded the advice of the 911 dispatchers to stop following TM. TM, on the other hand, had a reputation for being a bully who liked to start fights, and had been in trouble before. Wasn't he on school probation and suspension for fighting in school at the time of the incident? If I recall correctly, he was. The prudent thing for him to have done, if he was worried about his "stalker" was to call 911 himself, rather than try handle the perceived threat on his own. That may not have occurred to him partly because his prior troubles with legal authorities left on poor terms with the police.

[_Doctor Steuss]

4. I've been in many fights, while young stopping bullies and being beat on by bullies and brothers. I'm also an expert Martial Artist who's trained in several disciplines, as well when young played several sports. In the Marines I defended a partially r******* kid from a black man who was a bully and he gathered friends that night and put a beat down on me with about 7 other blacks, and I fought and scared them off after many shots to the head while on the ground before being able to get up and give them some good hits. This event also caused a severe case of sinusitis not long after due to the head traumas. There have been other events, none of which I lost, not to mention training and some competition.

Given this, I'm admittedly a bit perplexed at your analysis of Zimmerman’s injuries.

[_ldsfaqs]

Given this, I'm admittedly a bit perplexed at your analysis of Zimmerman’s injuries.

What "perplexes" you? Please clarify.

[_Doctor Steuss]

What "perplexes" you? Please clarify.

Perplexed is probably too strong of a word, but what has my noggin’ slightly itching is…

Early you had stated:

Further, the pictures show the evidence of Trayvon's damage.... Yet YOU would have us believe that Zimmerman should have just let himself be potentially killed, by letting it continue.

I definitely haven’t had your extensive experience of beating up bullies (embarrasingly, because I used to be a bit of a bully before the wonders of medication), but from my own experiences, Zimmerman's injuries were what one would expect to be inflicted by a twiggy teenager whose only instruction on fighting had been from Hollywood, and a few street fights with other twiggy teenagers.

It’s very possible that Zimmerman had never been in a real fight before, and believed his life was in danger, but based on his injuries, I personally don’t see how the “damage” left by Trayvon could lead someone with extensive experience with fighting to believe that Zimmerman’s life was in critical danger.

Trayvon weighed less than probably half of the girls I’ve dated, and in my opinion, this is quite evident in the “damage” he inflicted.

At least that’s my $.02 (which is probably only worth about $.00025, due to inflation).