Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt - NYT

[_RayAgostini]

Yeah, I have to say that I was skeptical of the author's skepticism. He seems to assume that knowledge of church history will be uniform throughout the world (it isn't), with equal access to all materials and publications in every country (there is not). So the fact that Bushman's Smith biography is published by Deseret says very little about the weekly education of the members in every country.

Indeed. Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given unto you. Living in a country where the most "anti-Mormon" book available was No Man Knows My History, and the grand total of anti-Mormon/critical books in any given library could be counted on the fingers of one hand (often three fingers), was not "equal" to nor conducive to "finding the truth". It isn't "equality of opportunity" that counts, but incentive and motivation to find the truth.

Where did my serious questioning begin? Reading the seven volume History of the Church (1981-1983) (I was not even 30 years old). It's been there since the turn of the last century in mostly edited form, but still there, and published by the Church. The pages were waiting to be turned by the hands of inquisitive minds, but they relied on the Church to do that for them, and when they discovered the "shocking truth" who was to blame? The Church, of course.

Zeal Without Knowledge.

Time's up.

Have a good night.

[_Bazooka]

I was asking some questions of an LDS historian while I was a student at BYU (I'm not going to give you the name, but he's pretty well published in the field). I forget how we got into the story, but he had said something in passing over the dinner table about Joseph Smith and polygamy. He said that his mother-in-law (devout life-long member of the church) had practically screamed at him, "You take that back! Joseph Smith had NOTHING to do with polygamy, that was Brigham Young!"

It's really not all that uncommon.

I concur.

My ex-wife's grandmother had never heard of Joe's cheating ways under the guise of polygamy.

She was 88 at the time, born and raised in rural Mormon Utah.

Her words were, "I always knew that Brigham was a scoundrel, but Joseph Smith?? This changes the way I view him.

My ex-wife was in the same boat. "Being raised as a Mormon girl, Joseph Smith was placed upon a pedestal as the kind of man that we should strive for. Now I find out that he was sneaking around his wife's back AND then finally in D&C 132 he threatens his beloved wife with DEATH if she does not accept his cheating ways!"

It was the most troubling aspect that ultimately lead to her exit.

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

Thanks for sharing and confirming to the knowitalls that there are many members who believe in the love story facade they were taught about Horny Joe and his dedicated wife.

You have a long road ahead of you with your wife at that stage. I was there years ago.

[_beanboots]

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

When did this occur?

[_Bazooka]

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

When did this occur?

What's the relevance?

[_malkie]

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

Did she follow up later, as did my wife after a similar conversation, with: "Anyway, there's no better way to raise children!"? I've heard that refrain several times.

[_Bazooka]

So, me and Sister Bazooka are watching a TV programme about Warren Jeff's and polygamous cults.
Me: "I wonder how this differs to the polygamy of Joseph Smiths era?"
"Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy."
Me: "What? Are you sure?"
"Yes, it only started during Brigham Young's era because there were so many widows that needed looking after following the trek west when many of their husbands died."
Me: "Really, you sure?"
"Yep."
Me: "I've just checked on Family Search and it says Joseph Smith had 33 wives...."
*silence*
Me: "Hang on, some of them were already married."
*silence, with a furrowed brow, then*
"Well, I'm not getting into any of that..."
*exits the room*

Sister Bazooka is a lifelong member of the Church who graduated seminary and institute, taught Primary, Young Women, Relief and Sunday School.

Did she follow up later, as did my wife after a similar conversation, with: "Anyway, there's no better way to raise children!"? I've heard that refrain several times.

Actually, no.
What has transpired over time is that her attitude towards the Church, particularly attendance, has changed.

[_Runtu]

I posted a link to the Times article on my Facebook page. I immediately got a "it's all been discussed for years" response, followed by a "the church shouldn't spoon-feed the members, especially not controversial stuff, because we should be focused on service and love."

Sigh.

[_SteelHead]

On an aside. I found franktalk and Jo. They have taken up new residency: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ac279a4122

[_Chap]

...

There are some people for whom Mormonism still "works" even after they come to the realization that "the church is not true." But for most, I suspect that the only reason they keep going through the drudgery of life as a Mormon, dealing with all the rules and all the meetings and all the other b***s***, is because they think it really is true with a capital T--they actually believe that there were Nephites, that there were gold plates inscribed with Reformed Egyptian, that Jaredites really sailed in real boats that were tight like a dish, Elohim and Jesus and Moroni and Elijah and John the Baptist and Peter and James and John actually appeared and spoke with Joseph Smith face to face, the Mississippi froze for the Mormons to cross, Jesus appears to Mormon prophets today telling them where to send each and every missionary, etc. For most, when literal belief falls by the wayside, and they are left to decide whether the current state of church goodness is enough to justify all of their time, treasure, and talents, well, they find the church rather lacking in the "goodness" department.

Well, that does seem reasonable, doesn't it, especially the bolded part?