Are Mormons Christian? Spilt from original thread

[_Markk]

Here are some facts of why Mormons are not Christian
google "Are Mormons Christians"
It upsets me that Mormons are calling themselves Christians when they are actually anti Christian according to the Bible.
Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations which Joseph Smith said were, ". . .all wrong...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19)
In the past Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) have preferred to be called "saints." However, in the recent years the LDS church has spend millions in an intense public relations campaign aimed at moving their church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in their proselyting the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present themselves as Christians and trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.

Hopefully, this article will help the both Mormons and non-Mormons to see that Mormonism worships a different god and Jesus Christ and not the God and Jesus Christ of the Bible. The Constitution of the United States gives every citizen the right of freedom of religion and the LDS people have the right to believe as they desire. However, biblical Christians also have the right to defend their historic faith as revealed in the Bible and expose those who misuse their historic name.

Are you sitting down there Jason15? I hope so. As I did when I called in Shawn WHOSIT's anti-mormon TV show last year and proved HE was NOT a Christian all Evangelicals, Protestants, Catholics worship no Christ at all.
Okay, I will even admit that LDS are not true Christians if that makes you feel better. They too are fully overcome of the world.....academics not a few.

Note: There is no alter call mentioned in the Bible. The resurrected Christ HAD to minister to those Jews who already BELIEVED...say amen and halleluiah with me people....for forty days, count them MR INSTANT SALVATION, forty days......and then Jesus had to tell them to continue with one accord in fasting and prayer until, yeah, let's make that a big UNTIL they received the promise of the Father......what's that?....which is the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

Now anyone who gets a new heart from God does not continue a sinner.........idiot Evangelical moron posers thinking that they are saved while they continue to be sinners as if God does not have the power to change them, which denies the faith and crucifies Christ afresh, if you ever were accountable, you pernicious bastards.

Oh, but keep those money blessings a comin' in everybody. KACHING A MUNDO. Money changin' grunts.

I could go on an on and on and on and on and on if you want. Bug off.

Boy, calling folks idiots is truly a sign of your perfection...gotta love it Nightlion, how many Apocalbrews did have before you wrote this one!

love ya...

Mark...just another idiot evangelical poser pernicious bastard who still sins.

[_maklelan]

So LDS Women become gods?

No, they become goddesses.

And will have the same power, knowledge, glory and dominion as heavenly father and Jesus, that would demand they hold the melk. priesthood...do you believe that?

Who knows? Women administer priesthood ordinances in the temple for other women.

I did not cherry pick anything, GTTA was written under GA authorization and supervision, by one sitting prophet, one future prophet, and the likes of Widstoe, Callis, and Richards.

I don't think you're necessarily cherry-picking, just ignoring context in favor of your etic and presuppositional perspective.

The teaching manual reads...

Thus all men who ascend to the glorious status of Godhood can do so only by one method—by obedience to all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fundamental in the process of obedience to truth is knowledge. We must first learn true principles before we are capable of intelligent obedience. The word of the Lord came to the latter-day Prophet as follows: "Behold, ye are little children and ye cannot bear all things now; ye must grow in grace and in the knowledge of truth." 1 Also, "It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance." 2 And again the Lord declared, "Men are saved no faster than they gain knowledge." The Prophet Joseph described the process of going on toward Godhood as follows:

According to LDS thought, The gospel can only be administered by those that hold priesthood keys, and that all eternal laws are bound by the power of the prieshood.

And, again, women administer priesthood ordinances in certain contexts.

BASED ON ETERNAL LAWS
God provided the gift of the Holy Ghost as a means by which "a man may place himself in touch with the whole universe and draw knowledge from it, including the beings of superior intelligence that it contains." 3 The Spirit of God was also provided to serve with the Holy Ghost as another guide for man in helping him to establish communication with the Eternal Father.
According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, all truth was to operate through the power of the Holy Priesthood. Man was to be given that Priesthood, and through it God was to reveal His will to mortals. To quote:
[The Melchizedek Priesthood holds] the keys of the Kingdom of God in all ages of the world to the latest posterity on the earth; and is the channel through which all knowledge, doctrine, the plan of salvation and every important matter is revealed from heaven. Its institution was prior to the "foundation of the earth." . . . [It] is the highest and holiest Priesthood, and is after the order of the Son of God. 4

D&C 132:19-20 refers to both the husband and the wife throughout with "they." "They shall be gods" refers to the husband and the wife. The Church has always followed the tradition of avoiding gender inclusive terms, preferring to use "men" and "man" to refer collectively to humankind.

[_Nightlion]

Are you sitting down there Jason15? I hope so. As I did when I called in Shawn WHOSIT's anti-mormon TV show last year and proved HE was NOT a Christian all Evangelicals, Protestants, Catholics worship no Christ at all.
Okay, I will even admit that LDS are not true Christians if that makes you feel better. They too are fully overcome of the world.....academics not a few.

Note: There is no alter call mentioned in the Bible. The resurrected Christ HAD to minister to those Jews who already BELIEVED...say amen and halleluiah with me people....for forty days, count them MR INSTANT SALVATION, forty days......and then Jesus had to tell them to continue with one accord in fasting and prayer until, yeah, let's make that a big UNTIL they received the promise of the Father......what's that?....which is the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

Now anyone who gets a new heart from God does not continue a sinner.........idiot Evangelical moron posers thinking that they are saved while they continue to be sinners as if God does not have the power to change them, which denies the faith and crucifies Christ afresh, if you ever were accountable, you pernicious bastards.

Oh, but keep those money blessings a comin' in everybody. KACHING A MUNDO. Money changin' grunts.

I could go on an on and on and on and on and on if you want. Bug off.

Boy, calling folks idiots is truly a sign of your perfection...gotta love it Nightlion, how many Apocalbrews did have before you wrote this one!

love ya...

Mark...just another idiot evangelical poser pernicious bastard who still sins.

Sorry to say I do not have a good read on you Mark. I got a water cooler bottle and a twenty-four pack 16.9 oz. individual bottles of genuine spring water from off The Apocalrock...thank you very much.

Yeah, I admit my perfection is a bit testy in regard to militant hypocrisy. But its equally spread out upon all posers not just Evangelicals. But if you would like to engage any particular feel free.

[_Nightlion]

D&C 132:19-20 refers to both the husband and the wife throughout with "they." "They shall be gods" refers to the husband and the wife. The Church has always followed the tradition of avoiding gender inclusive terms, preferring to use "men" and "man" to refer collectively to humankind.

I must be crazy to engage you maklelan yet one has to wonder how long LDS will strive to defend the indefensible nonsense of our becoming the same sort of God as the Very Eternal Father? The adolescent misunderstanding of beginning Mormons is bad but now after so much time who cannot connect the dots rightly and send this false doctrine to the slag dump of LDS strong delusion?

It does not roll from eternity to enternity.

Exalted beings married continue seeds both in the world and out of the world. BECAUSE they thusly continue they are CALLED gods and not angels. That's as close as it gets. No further. The stump in the road for LDS is their fantasy that the Very Eternal Father is the father of their spirit bodies. This is an easily discovered error.

What you need to realize is that Christ and the Father and the Holy Ghost are all three the Very Eternal Father as it hints of in the Book of Mormon. Because of their calling us out of the Light of Truth and assigning us independent spheres of existence. This is how they are our Heavenly Father and the Eternal God.

I understand that this insist that LDS accept another separate stage of existence in our pre-existence. This is the simplest thing for me to establish. I could link my paper: The Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology if you like. I realize that for over thirty years, I alone have taught this and am the only apostle of Christ to propose it. But given a chance of rational scripture study I will be vindicated and the false doctrine of us becoming precisely the same as the Eternal God will disappear. Seriously, it is as dumb as evolution for goodness sake.

If you want to rake over the nuts and bolts of it no problem. Dismiss it at grave peril to your own ability to come unto Christ acceptably and get started on your road to exaltation.

[Guest]

1st, the everlasting covenant is not TELOP, so your proof text is spun...again, what demand do the ELOP have on your salvation and final estate?

Here - I'll use small words for you since you refuse to read the scriptures I have cited. Mankind become gods (a.k.a. Celestial beings) by doing everything God asks of them.

2nd, then you believe both "worthy" men and women will be gods and have "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge as HF and Jesus...? Please answer.

As maklelan already pointed out to you, women will actually be referred to as goddesses. And no, I don't believe that characterization of D&C 132. It does not say that.

3rd, Where is the line as to what "the church" teaches? My grand parents, my father, lived and died believing worthy men can become gods, not women...were they duped or just not as smart as you?

They were mistaken. That comes with being human and being fallible.

Also... if Joseph Smith was wrong about the nature of God, whom he claimed to have seen and talked to on many occasions, why should anyone believe a word he has said, including D&C 132?

Actually, you shouldn't believe ANYTHING Joseph Smith had to say unless God confirms it.

4th, the context was set when Joseph Smith said HF was just like you and me...period, you keep overlooking that qualifying statement to the context of the KFD.
I guess to you it doesn't matter what the church teaches, it appears to me, that to you, it is nothing more than subjective candor? In other words LDS leaders are sincere, frank, and bold in their teachings yet in all reality it is nothing more than their own opinions that are just not true.
This is why I teach that Mormonism is not based on any real sets of truths, but on personal opinions subjective to "the survival of the church." Meaning, it does not matter what is taught, or by whom, as long as the personal testimony of "the church" survives. "God was once a man"...maybe, maybe not...it depend on the moment and the saint...TELOP? Naw, it is a teaching, it is in the AoF, but it means nothing to me? Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, Ezra Taft Benson, John Widstoe, Callis, Richards, and Hunter....all misunderstood, and taught wrongly on the true nature of God and TELOP but you, Tobin, got it right? More to the maze.

I don't pretend to know everything or be perfect if that is what you are getting at? But I do think I have a more firm grasp of this topic than you do.

So just one more time...do you believe worthy LDS men AND women have will have All the power lorry dominion and knowledge that HF and Jesus have?

We've already been over this. I do not endorse your mischaracterizations of D&C 132 - so NO!!!

[_maklelan]

I must be crazy to engage you maklelan yet one has to wonder how long LDS will strive to defend the indefensible nonsense of our becoming the same sort of God as the Very Eternal Father? The adolescent misunderstanding of beginning Mormons is bad but now after so much time who cannot connect the dots rightly and send this false doctrine to the slag dump of LDS strong delusion?

It does not roll from eternity to enternity.

Exalted beings married continue seeds both in the world and out of the world. BECAUSE they thusly continue they are CALLED gods and not angels.

The text doesn't say they will be "called gods," it says, multiple times, "then shall they be gods."

That's as close as it gets. No further. The stump in the road for LDS is their fantasy that the Very Eternal Father is the father of their spirit bodies. This is an easily discovered error.

What you need to realize is that Christ and the Father and the Holy Ghost are all three the Very Eternal Father as it hints of in the Book of Mormon. Because of their calling us out of the Light of Truth and assigning us independent spheres of existence. This is how they are our Heavenly Father and the Eternal God.

I understand that this insist that LDS accept another separate stage of existence in our pre-existence. This is the simplest thing for me to establish. I could link my paper: The Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology if you like. I realize that for over thirty years, I alone have taught this and am the only apostle of Christ to propose it. But given a chance of rational scripture study I will be vindicated and the false doctrine of us becoming precisely the same as the Eternal God will disappear. Seriously, it is as dumb as evolution for goodness sake.

If you want to rake over the nuts and bolts of it no problem. Dismiss it at grave peril to your own ability to come unto Christ acceptably and get started on your road to exaltation.

As dumb as evolution? I'm afraid you probably wouldn't like what I would have to say about a paper written from that perspective.

[_Nightlion]

The text doesn't say they will be "called gods," it says, multiple times, "then shall they be gods."

D&C 132: 20
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

Yeah, says that. But it is meant in this context: gods because they continue. These are the rulers Christ chose from the beginning. They have all power respective to their given sphere and no more. The scriptures shows plainly Adam and Eve acting in their exaltation. And all that they do is continue seeds. Seeds only. No calling intelligence out of the light of truth and assigning them independent spheres of existence. No Satan rebelling against them and no Christ as their firstborn and all the confusion that would create.

And more importantly Christ our Maker the Eternal God ONLY works by the word of his power which are his commandments. HE does not continue the seeds neither is he carnal nor sensual. He does not have spirit children from seed nor physical children from seed. We become the children of God when we accept the gospel rightly. Then he takes over the surrogacy of Adam and Eve in both spirit body birth and physical in the resurrection.

I getting called away. Hope to get back to this another time.

D&C 29
30 But remember that all my judgments are not given unto men; and as the words have gone forth out of my mouth even so shall they be fulfilled, that the first shall be last, and that the last shall be first in all things whatsoever I have created by the word of my power, which is the power of my Spirit.
31 For by the power of my Spirit created I them; yea, all things both spiritual and temporal—
32 First spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work; and again, first temporal, and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work—
33 Speaking unto you that you may naturally understand; but unto myself my works have no end, neither beginning; but it is given unto you that ye may understand, because ye have asked it of me and are agreed.
34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.
35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.

As dumb as evolution? I'm afraid you probably wouldn't like what I would have to say about a paper written from that perspective.

Wouldn't phase me in the least. But my theology ignores evolution as wholly irrelevant.

[_jordon3]

Praise the Lord Jesus --- the Eternal God..... there are thinking progressive Mormons like you Mr. Nightlion. Gotta love a Mormon that thinks for himself.

[_Markk]

maklelan wrote: No, they become goddesses.

I agree that is LDS thought. Then who is the church referring to below when they call them Gods? men or women...?

They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).

Who will have All power, glory, knowledge, and dominion...worthy men. worthy women, or both?

[_Markk]

Sorry to say I do not have a good read on you Mark. I got a water cooler bottle and a twenty-four pack 16.9 oz. individual bottles of genuine spring water from off The Apocalrock...thank you very much.

Yeah, I admit my perfection is a bit testy in regard to militant hypocrisy. But its equally spread out upon all posers not just Evangelicals. But if you would like to engage any particular feel free.

Not sin, just testy perfection? I will admit you are not a poser though, lets just say you are the Almond Joy of this board.

Take care

mark