Bible verse by verse

[_maklelan]

They understood correctly that there is but ONE GOD.

That wasn't my question. YHWH is a personal name, not a count noun. Do you know what a count noun is? It's a noun that can be modified by a numeral. "God" is a count noun, since you can have gods, or two gods, or one god. A personal name in reference to a specific personal entity is not a count noun. Saying "our God is one YHWH" is vastly different from saying "our God is one God." So, again, what does this verse mean? Did the Israelites think there was more than one YHWH?

The full understanding that the Messiah was indeed the Lord is a later revelation; however, when Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Moses , and others saw a "physical manifestation of God, what they actually were dealing with was Christ. Investigate the term Christophany.

Please believe me when I tell you that I have forgotten more about that term than you know about it. Unfortunately, you can do nothing to support the assertion that it was Christ in those theophanies except assert that it has to be because you assert the Bible acknowledges the existence of only one God. In other words, your case is pure argument by assertion (another fallacy). My question has nothing whatsoever to do with messianism, though. I am asking you why Deut 6:4 says "YHWH out God is one YHWH." Where there people insisting there was more than one YHWH? I'm being sincere. I'd like to know what you think this means, precisely. You claim to have spent time trying to understand the scriptures, so tell me what you understand this verse to mean.

[_maklelan]

Before I begin, you are supposed to include links to the original websites when you just copy and paste entire articles from the internet, as you have done here.

TYRE
In the 26th chapter of Ezekiel (592-570 BC) seven things are predicted to happen to the city of Tyre:
1) Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:8).

Nope. That verse only says he will slay daughters in the field. It never says his attack will be limited to the mainland city, nor does the verse say anything whatsoever about him destroying it. The verse is describing his preparations for battle. Irrespective, Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed mainland Tyre, he just succeeded in running the inhabitants off to the island. Taking a city and destroying a city are two entirely different things. Old Tyre was not actually destroyed until Alexander the Great tore it apart to use the rubble for his causeway. Oops.

2) Many nations against Tyre (Ezekiel 26:3).

Which really just refers to Nebuchadnezzar. As we can see in 2 Kgs 24:1-2 and Jer 25:9, Nebuchadnezzar's forces were thought to constitute several nations (the "tribes of the north"). Jer 25:9 uses the plural "them" to refer to the nations under Nebuchadnezzar's purview. As you can see, this prophecy was really intended just to refer to Nebuchadnezzar's siege.

3) Make her a bare rock; flat like the top of a rock (Ezekiel 26:4).

Never happened.

4) Fishermen will spread their nets over the site (Ezekiel 26:5).

Never happened.

5) Throw the debris into the water (Ezekiel 26:12).

This must be talking about the island city, since, according to the prophecy, the mainland city had been destroyed long before "they" came to destroy the island. In light of that, number 5 also didn't happen.

6) Never be rebuilt (Ezekiel 26:14).

Never happened.

7) Never be found again (Ezekiel 26:21)

Never happened.

Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to mainland Tyre three years after the prophecy and after a 13 year siege (585-573 BC) Tyre made terms and acknowledged Babylonian authority over them. When Nebuchadnezzar broke the gates down, he found the city almost empty. The majority of the people had moved by ship to an island about 1/2 miles off the coast and fortified a city there. The mainland city was destroyed in 573 BC, as predicted.

Where do you find an account saying he destroyed the empty city? Please cite a source for this.

The city of Tyre on the island remained a powerful city for several hundred years.

Alexander the Great, in his war on Persia, marching southward called on each city to open their gates to him, as part of his plan to deny the use to the Persian fleet. Tyre refused to do so, and Alexander laid siege to the city. Possessing no fleet, he demolished old Tyre, on the mainland, and with the debris built a causeway 200 feet wide across the straits separating the old and new towns, erecting towers and war engines at the farther end. Tyre continually raided the causeway with fire-ships greatly retarding progress, until Alexander pressured conquered subjects to make ships for his operation. After attaining a superior naval force, Alexander finished the causeway, battered the walls of Tyre down

This is a misrepresentation. Alexander actually only achieved a small breach in one side of one wall and his troops entered and took the city through that small breach.

killed eight thousand of the inhabitants and sold thirty thousand into slavery.

A history book by a secular historian reads, "Alexander the Great ... reduced Tyre to ruins... The larger part of the site of the once great city is now bare as the top of a rock --- a place where fishermen now spread their nets to dry."

You forgot to mention that this history book was a high school textbook published in 1890. It's hardly "secular history," as it relies primarily on the Bible for many of its historical accounts. In other words, it's not reporting history that just happens to coincide with the Bible, it's reporting what the Bible says as history. The simple fact is that Tyre remained inhabited.

Another historian, John C. Beck, says, "The history of Tyre does not stop with after the conquest of Alexander. Men continue to rebuild her and armies continue to besiege her walls, until finally after sixteen hundred years, she falls never to be rebuilt again."

This is a quote from an unpublished master's thesis from Dallas Theological Seminary. This is amateur apologetics, not actual history.

All the prophecies of Ezekiel about Tyre have come true: Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city of Tyre; Many nations were against Tyre; Alexander made her a bare rock and threw debris into the water to make the causeway; fishermen now spread nets over the site; (there is a city of Tyre today, but it is located down the coast from the original Tyre) the old city of Tyre has never been rebuilt, even though a great freshwater spring are located at the site, providing 10,000,000 gallons daily. It is still an excellent site today but has never been rebuilt, although many have tried. All seven of the predictions came true in the minutest detail.

Apologetic claptrap. Evidently you're unable to discern real history from imaginary history.

[_Gunnar]

TYRE

All the prophecies of Ezekiel about Tyre have come true: Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city of Tyre; Many nations were against Tyre; Alexander made her a bare rock and threw debris into the water to make the causeway; fishermen now spread nets over the site; (there is a city of Tyre today, but it is located down the coast from the original Tyre) the old city of Tyre has never been rebuilt, even though a great freshwater spring are located at the site, providing 10,000,000 gallons daily. It is still an excellent site today but has never been rebuilt, although many have tried. All seven of the predictions came true in the minutest detail.

Not true according to the Wikipedia article on Tyre--especially the part I bolded above.

The present-day city of Tyre covers a large part of the original island and has expanded onto and covers most of the causeway, which had increased greatly in width over the centuries because of extensive silt depositions on either side. The part of the original island that is not covered by the modern city of Tyre consists mostly of an archaeological site showcasing remains of the city from ancient times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

[_Gunnar]

by the way, the still existing remains of ancient Tyre that constitute the archaeological site mentioned in my last post refute your claim that the prophecy you cited that Tyre would be reduced to nothing but bare, uninhabited rock was fulfilled.

[_LittleNipper]

Before I begin, you are supposed to include links to the original websites when you just copy and paste entire articles from the internet, as you have done here.

TYRE
In the 26th chapter of Ezekiel (592-570 BC) seven things are predicted to happen to the city of Tyre:
1) Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:8).

Nope. That verse only says he will slay daughters in the field. It never says his attack will be limited to the mainland city, nor does the verse say anything whatsoever about him destroying it. The verse is describing his preparations for battle. Irrespective, Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed mainland Tyre, he just succeeded in running the inhabitants off to the island. Taking a city and destroying a city are two entirely different things. Old Tyre was not actually destroyed until Alexander the Great tore it apart to use the rubble for his causeway. Oops.

.

8"He will slay your daughters on the mainland with the sword; and he will make siege walls against you, cast up a ramp against you and raise up a large shield against you. 9"The blow of his battering rams he will direct against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers.…

[_LittleNipper]

by the way, the still existing remains of ancient Tyre that constitute the archaeological site mentioned in my last post refute your claim that the prophecy you cited that Tyre would be reduced to nothing but bare, uninhabited rock was fulfilled.

No one lives in the ruins of the "original" city. There were two cities in ancient history.

[_LittleNipper]

Before I begin, you are supposed to include links to the original websites when you just copy and paste entire articles from the internet, as you have done here.

TYRE
In the 26th chapter of Ezekiel (592-570 BC) seven things are predicted to happen to the city of Tyre:
1) Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:8).

Nope. That verse only says he will slay daughters in the field. It never says his attack will be limited to the mainland city, nor does the verse say anything whatsoever about him destroying it. The verse is describing his preparations for battle. Irrespective, Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed mainland Tyre, he just succeeded in running the inhabitants off to the island. Taking a city and destroying a city are two entirely different things. Old Tyre was not actually destroyed until Alexander the Great tore it apart to use the rubble for his causeway. Oops.

2) Many nations against Tyre (Ezekiel 26:3).

Which really just refers to Nebuchadnezzar. As we can see in 2 Kgs 24:1-2 and Jer 25:9, Nebuchadnezzar's forces were thought to constitute several nations (the "tribes of the north"). Jer 25:9 uses the plural "them" to refer to the nations under Nebuchadnezzar's purview. As you can see, this prophecy was really intended just to refer to Nebuchadnezzar's siege.

3) Make her a bare rock; flat like the top of a rock (Ezekiel 26:4).

Never happened.

4) Fishermen will spread their nets over the site (Ezekiel 26:5).

Never happened.

5) Throw the debris into the water (Ezekiel 26:12).

This must be talking about the island city, since, according to the prophecy, the mainland city had been destroyed long before "they" came to destroy the island. In light of that, number 5 also didn't happen.

6) Never be rebuilt (Ezekiel 26:14).

Never happened.

7) Never be found again (Ezekiel 26:21)

Never happened.

Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to mainland Tyre three years after the prophecy and after a 13 year siege (585-573 BC) Tyre made terms and acknowledged Babylonian authority over them. When Nebuchadnezzar broke the gates down, he found the city almost empty. The majority of the people had moved by ship to an island about 1/2 miles off the coast and fortified a city there. The mainland city was destroyed in 573 BC, as predicted.

Where do you find an account saying he destroyed the empty city? Please cite a source for this.

The city of Tyre on the island remained a powerful city for several hundred years.

Alexander the Great, in his war on Persia, marching southward called on each city to open their gates to him, as part of his plan to deny the use to the Persian fleet. Tyre refused to do so, and Alexander laid siege to the city. Possessing no fleet, he demolished old Tyre, on the mainland, and with the debris built a causeway 200 feet wide across the straits separating the old and new towns, erecting towers and war engines at the farther end. Tyre continually raided the causeway with fire-ships greatly retarding progress, until Alexander pressured conquered subjects to make ships for his operation. After attaining a superior naval force, Alexander finished the causeway, battered the walls of Tyre down

This is a misrepresentation. Alexander actually only achieved a small breach in one side of one wall and his troops entered and took the city through that small breach.

killed eight thousand of the inhabitants and sold thirty thousand into slavery.

A history book by a secular historian reads, "Alexander the Great ... reduced Tyre to ruins... The larger part of the site of the once great city is now bare as the top of a rock --- a place where fishermen now spread their nets to dry."

You forgot to mention that this history book was a high school textbook published in 1890. It's hardly "secular history," as it relies primarily on the Bible for many of its historical accounts. In other words, it's not reporting history that just happens to coincide with the Bible, it's reporting what the Bible says as history. The simple fact is that Tyre remained inhabited.

Another historian, John C. Beck, says, "The history of Tyre does not stop with after the conquest of Alexander. Men continue to rebuild her and armies continue to besiege her walls, until finally after sixteen hundred years, she falls never to be rebuilt again."

This is a quote from an unpublished master's thesis from Dallas Theological Seminary. This is amateur apologetics, not actual history.

All the prophecies of Ezekiel about Tyre have come true: Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city of Tyre; Many nations were against Tyre; Alexander made her a bare rock and threw debris into the water to make the causeway; fishermen now spread nets over the site; (there is a city of Tyre today, but it is located down the coast from the original Tyre) the old city of Tyre has never been rebuilt, even though a great freshwater spring are located at the site, providing 10,000,000 gallons daily. It is still an excellent site today but has never been rebuilt, although many have tried. All seven of the predictions came true in the minutest detail.

Apologetic claptrap. Evidently you're unable to discern real history from imaginary history.

Please see; http://www.gospeloutreach.net/bibsuper.html

[Guest]

They understood correctly that there is but ONE GOD.

That wasn't my question. YHWH is a personal name, not a count noun. Do you know what a count noun is? It's a noun that can be modified by a numeral. "God" is a count noun, since you can have gods, or two gods, or one god. A personal name in reference to a specific personal entity is not a count noun. Saying "our God is one YHWH" is vastly different from saying "our God is one God." So, again, what does this verse mean? Did the Israelites think there was more than one YHWH?

The full understanding that the Messiah was indeed the Lord is a later revelation; however, when Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Moses , and others saw a "physical manifestation of God, what they actually were dealing with was Christ. Investigate the term Christophany.

Please believe me when I tell you that I have forgotten more about that term than you know about it. Unfortunately, you can do nothing to support the assertion that it was Christ in those theophanies except assert that it has to be because you assert the Bible acknowledges the existence of only one God. In other words, your case is pure argument by assertion (another fallacy). My question has nothing whatsoever to do with messianism, though. I am asking you why Deut 6:4 says "YHWH out God is one YHWH." Where there people insisting there was more than one YHWH? I'm being sincere. I'd like to know what you think this means, precisely. You claim to have spent time trying to understand the scriptures, so tell me what you understand this verse to mean.

Likewise you have done nothing to destroy the belief that Christ appeared throughout the Old Testament --- due to the biblical evidence. Well, of course there were people who believed that there were many gods. However, the truth is that there is but one God who has been revealed to exist in THREE eternal parts or individuals. The perfect "Triangle."
Yahweh is Christ! please see: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/j ... -is-yahweh

[_maklelan]

Yahweh is Christ! please see: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/j ... -is-yahweh

I warned you about linking me to this crap.

For ancient Jews (and conservative modern ones), YAHWEH was the Name of names; so sacred that they would not speak it nor would they write it in full (they left out the vowels: YHWH).

No ancient Jews used vowels at all. Vowels weren't added to the Hebrew language at all until late antiquity (around 600-900 Ce). Whoever wrote this is just monstrously ignorant of Biblical Hebrew.

As a Pharisee,5 Paul knew this text very well. He knew exactly what he was saying: Jesus of Nazareth is YAHWEH.

No, messianists just claimed any Hunter Biden texts they wanted referred to Christ. The New Testament reinterprets Hebrew Bible texts referring to YHWH, David, other Israelite kings, other gods, and angels as references to Jesus. Check out Fitzmyer's The One Who Is To Come.

[_maklelan]

Please see; http://www.gospeloutreach.net/bibsuper.html

Oh, good grief. I shudder to think that there are people out there ignorantly doing this kind of damage to my profession.