Is hell enough as punishment?

[_Bazooka]

Hello,

Surprisingly many non-beleivers here! I plan on keeping my faith.

How can you be sure?

[_subgenius]

Hello,

Surprisingly many non-beleivers here! I plan on keeping my faith.

How can you be sure?

are you really asking this poster if they are sure about having a plan?

[_Themis]

No I can not. But in the old testament he punishes people.

Don't you think it will be impossible to give an answer to your OP without at least one example?

[_Gunnar]

Biblical prophecies are batting 1000. No other religious group or religious writings can make the same claim.

Neither can the Bible--at least not honestly. See http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html
I and others have repeatedly pointed out to you how poor a batting average Biblical prophecies actually have, and you have yet to make a reasonable or coherent rebuttal to that.

[_LittleNipper]

Read the following and you tell me such an idea is TOTALLY unreasonable: http://www.british-israel.ca/Genesis.htm#.UkmG_JbD-Cg

Also of note: http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG ... ateuch.htm

The idea that Moses wrote the Pentateuch is totally unreasonable.

Is Leo Tolstoy's War & Peace unreasonable? It is over 1000 pages. Is Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon unreasonable? It contains over 530 pages.

[_SteelHead]

Unreasonable to read 1000 pages...? No.

Unreasonable to believe that the Earth is on 7K or so years old.....? Yes.

[_LittleNipper]

Biblical prophecies are batting 1000. No other religious group or religious writings can make the same claim.

Neither can the Bible--at least not honestly. See http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html
I and others have repeatedly pointed out to you how poor a batting average Biblical prophecies actually have, and you have yet to make a reasonable or coherent rebuttal to that.

As noted, the Greek here is a bit slightly ambiguous and could go either way. Let's back up a bit, and see the whole quote:

On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” (John 7:37-38 ESV)

Consider that ancient Greek has no punctuation, and take this quote as a whole. Parsing it differently, you can see this rendered “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink, whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

That is, "whoever" is referring to him who thirsts ("if anyone thirsts, let him come"), and the water is coming from Jesus ("let him come to me and drink"). Then the Scripture is not saying water will come from the believer but instead from Jesus. And, indeed this seems more plausible. Several passages teach similarly, but before looking at them more closely, it's necessary to take a step back further yet.

Verse 37 refers to a feast, but one has to go all the way back to verse 2 to see that this is referring to the Feast of Booths (a.k.a Feast of Tabernacles). Though this feast was instituted in Leviticus, it was more often than not honored in the breach. One instance when it was celebrated, however, was during the rebuilding of Jerusalem under Ezra and Nehemiah.

Beginning in Nehemiah 8:13 and continuing through Nehemiah 9, we see the Feast of Booths celebration taking place, and those present honored God by remembering what he had done for them. Several times in this prayer, the priests remembered God's provision for them from the rock that Moses struck to brought forth water (see Exodus 17:6):

You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger and brought water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and you told them to go in to possess the land that you had sworn to give them. (Nehemiah 9:15 ESV)

So then, flowing water has been connected to the Feast of Booths before; and this is not the last word that Scripture says about this rock from which water sprang either--in 1 Cor. 10:4, Paul explains it always was from Christ that the water sprung: For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
So then, Christ to be the source of water flowing for the thirsty is no new thing at all--he was the source for Israelites in the Exodus as he is for all who believe in him.
This theme of water flows throughout the Bible, including those passages mentioned by @Richard. He has already dealt with those, so I will not rehash that specifically, except to note that (as Richard did) these verses refer to the source of living water as God, which is more consistent with understanding the source in John 7:38 to be Christ rather than the believer.
Ezekiel 47 refers to water flowing from within the temple, which would be at least awkward if the source of water is the believer. Again, consider Jesus. If the temple is the meeting place between God and man, Jesus is the ultimate meeting place between God and man--the temple par excellence. It is natural for him to be equated with the temple, and the source of water in Ezekiel 47.

[_Quasimodo]

Is Leo Tolstoy's War & Peace unreasonable? It is over 1000 pages. Is Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon unreasonable? It contains over 530 pages.

Tolstoy wrote a great work of fiction. Smith wrote a not so great work of fiction.

We know who both of those people were. Nobody knows who Moses was or if he wrote anything. We don't even know if he existed.

[_LittleNipper]

Is Leo Tolstoy's War & Peace unreasonable? It is over 1000 pages. Is Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon unreasonable? It contains over 530 pages.

Tolstoy wrote a great work of fiction. Smith wrote a not so great work of fiction.

We know who both of those people were. Nobody knows who Moses was or if he wrote anything. We don't even know if he existed.

I'm simply pointing out that it is not at all unreasonable for a child of Israel, and an adopted prince of Egypt, to write a book from long respected historic data by the moving and intervention of the Holy Spirit.

[_Quasimodo]

I'm simply pointing out that it is not at all unreasonable for a child of Israel, and an adopted prince of Egypt, to write a book from long respected historic data by the moving and intervention of the Holy Spirit.

The trouble, LitterNipper, is that it requires a faith in an intervention of the Holy Spirit to believe.

There is no historic evidence that it ever happened. There is only the Bible version to account for it. If you are willing to believe the Bible version of history then you can be satisfied with that and that is just fine.

Some of us require more than just a religious explanation to believe. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible doesn't really work for us.

If you can provide some proofs that don't require some faith then I am onboard.