subgenius wrote:There is no reason to conclude that God did not do as was claimed in the Book of Exodus. You have no evidence that would raise doubt about the author's account of events. If you are claiming that the author is a liar or prone to exaggeration then present the evidence for your claim or sit down and continue with your dumbfounded exclamations about people having the audacity to "have a plan".
What is the reason to conclude that God did as was claimed by the anonymous author of the writings known now as 'Exodus'? You have no evidence that would add credibility to the authors account of events. If you are claiming the author is not a liar, not prone to exaggeration then present the evidence to support your claim about what God did. or Sit down and continue with your dumbfounded exclamations about Goddunnit.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Except that there is no archaeological evidence of a million or so people wondering through the wilderness for 40 years. Nor is there evidence supporting the conquests of Canaan. So yeah, outside of the glaring holes, why conclude something other than the record of the Old Testament is accurate? http://ehrmanblog.org/historical-proble ... of-canaan/
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:Except that there is no archaeological evidence of a million or so people wondering through the wilderness for 40 years. Nor is there evidence supporting the conquests of Canaan. So yeah, outside of the glaring holes, why conclude something other than the record of the Old Testament is accurate? http://ehrmanblog.org/historical-proble ... of-canaan/
SteelHead,
From time-to-time, I read your posts just to laugh. And I'm sure subgenius is laughing just as hard as I am at your less than profound statement here. I know you may not realize this, but people wandering around in a wilderness aren't likely to leave much archaeological evidence. You typically need some kind of settlement where refuse, graves, tools, structural remains, and other items can accumulate so you can recover them for study.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
It's an interesting story, but I fear it's not true.
I've been doing a little search on it and it's pretty fuzzy. I found at least one account that is dated from September 2009. This is troublesome because there are no further accounts and no images.
A find like this would be big news for proponents of the Bible, but it would be bigger news for coin collectors. The earliest known coin currently is from Lydia and was minted around 600 BC. A coin from Joseph's era would need to be minted about 1500 BC.
Egyptians didn't use coins until the time of the Greek occupancy, apparently.
If you know of reports of these coins other than the original story, please post some links.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Tobin, Two million people marching around leave a mark. Pottery, trash, food remains, graves, firepits, implements, worn out sandals. 2 million people wandering in the wilderness with herds move slowly and leave all kinds of traces to their passage.
Outside of this, as noted the text of the conquest of Canaan contradicts itself.
The fact that you and sub (you allege) find this funny just alludes to your gross ignorance. I don't know if sub likes you lumping him into the Tobin club of ignoramuses. Perhaps you should buy a clue, or actually try to understand why archaeologists have deemed the exodus as described in the Old Testament a non event.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:Two million people marching around leave a mark. Pottery, trash, food remains, graves, firepits, implements, worn out sandals. 2 million people wandering in the wilderness with herds move slowly and leave all kinds of traces to their passage.
LOL We are up to 2 million people now. I expect your next post to contain 10 million people at least. Anyway, despite what you think, over a period of thousands of years, any traces of humans walking around in a wilderness would have long since vanished. And I noticed you did recognize the importance of the remains for archeological purposes. However, the problem is you have a poor understanding of archeology. It isn't a science of digging up the entire planet and trying to determine who may or may not have walked over any particular piece of earth. Settlements are selected due to many generations living there and leaving sufficient evidence of their presence to make some determinations about them. In this case, all such evidence would have either completely disappeared or been widely scattered.
Anyway, SteelHead, as much as I enjoy these little chats - it is clear have no idea what you are talking about. The more you spout off about this topic, the more painfully obvious that becomes. So, unless you have anything valid to say at all, I'll just continue to chuckle at your posts and refrain from engaging you further.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
The book of numbers 1:46 states the exodus was composed of 603550 men aged 20 and up. When you apply standard population distribution across that number you have a total population of about 2 million people as you need to account for women and children.
The population of Egypt at the time was estimated at 3 million. There is no evidence 2/3 of the population of Egypt up and left at any time frame reasonable for the Exodus.
This 2 million people wandered around the Sinai peninsula for 40 years. However you want to figure their route that equates to a couple of hundred meters a day of movement. They seem to have not moved very fast.
2 million people 10 abreast would form a line that could stretch from Canaan/Israel to Goshen/Egypt as the crow flies.
When two million people move into an area (Cannan) from another area (Egypt) the migration leaves marks of the cultural assimilation, new pottery forms, and evidence of the population explosion. There is no evidence of the migration of 2 million people into Canaan during the time frame. No cultural changes, no population influx.
2 million people taking 40 years to travel the route of the exodus would leave a mark, that you do not recognize that speaks to your ignorance, not mine
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance publicly, you must enjoy it.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:Two million people marching around leave a mark. Pottery, trash, food remains, graves, firepits, implements, worn out sandals. 2 million people wandering in the wilderness with herds move slowly and leave all kinds of traces to their passage.
LOL We are up to 2 million people now. I expect your next post to contain 10 million people at least. Anyway, despite what you think, over a period of thousands of years, any traces of humans walking around in a wilderness would have long since vanished. And I noticed you did recognize the importance of the remains for archeological purposes. However, the problem is you have a poor understanding of archeology. It isn't a science of digging up the entire planet and trying to determine who may or may not have walked over any particular piece of earth. Settlements are selected due to many generations living there and leaving sufficient evidence of their presence to make some determinations about them. In this case, all such evidence would have either completely disappeared or been widely scattered.
Anyway, SteelHead, as much as I enjoy these little chats - it is clear have no idea what you are talking about. The more you spout of about this topic, the more blatantly obvious that becomes. So, unless you have anything valid to say at all, I'll just continue to chuckle at your posts and refrain from engaging you further.
Tobin likes to pontificate about things he knows nothing about. One of the things he knows least about is archeology.
I know of many ancient camp sites in the Mojave Desert made by just a few hunter/ gatherer groups (ten to fifteen people) that are several thousands of years old. I've found a few of them, myself. These were people wandering in the wilderness. That was their lifestyle.
The desert is the easiest place to find such things due to the fact that loam doesn't build up in the desert and artifacts thousands of years old can often be found on the surface.
People leave evidence of their passing wherever they go. A broken projectile point was just trash from their perspective and was just tossed aside. Grinding stones (food processors) were too heavy to carry and were left on the campsite when the people moved on.
The residue from campfires lasts for millennia.
Even if the numbers of Moses' following were greatly exaggerated, there would be evidence of their passing.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Quasimodo wrote:Even if the numbers of Moses' following were greatly exaggerated, there would be evidence of their passing.
You can find the evidences in the text book...
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- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
