Is hell enough as punishment?

[_Themis]

Except that there is no archaeological evidence of a million or so people wondering through the wilderness for 40 years. Nor is there evidence supporting the conquests of Canaan. So yeah, outside of the glaring holes, why conclude something other than the record of the Old Testament is accurate?
http://ehrmanblog.org/historical-proble ... of-canaan/

SteelHead,

From time-to-time, I read your posts just to laugh.

Funny, I do the same with yours. Unfortunately others are right that you are really stupid. I tend to think willfully so. It's why I don't waste as much time when you start saying millions in the desert would not leave a trace. It's to obviously wrong.

[_Themis]

This is why I gave up the Old Testament. None of it is literal it is all symbolic. ;)
Creation in 6 days - symbolic
Fall of Adam - symbolic
Flood - symbolic
Exodus - symbolic
Kingdoms - symbolic

Why should I follow this work of fiction again?

Eh, we'll, that is the problem with sola scriptura.

Symbolism can be used to convey a literal truth. The Bible is not a science text book or a historical text book, and does not have the purpose of those types of books.

What literal truth, and how do you determine it? As such I don't think you have answered his question. Also, I don't think he is talking about subjective truths like be good.

[_SteelHead]

The Bible is a collection of mythology like other collections of mythologies. It has no more veracity than say D'Aulaires' Book of Greek Myths.

[_madeleine]

Eh, we'll, that is the problem with sola scriptura.

Symbolism can be used to convey a literal truth. The Bible is not a science text book or a historical text book, and does not have the purpose of those types of books.

What literal truth, and how do you determine it? As such I don't think you have answered his question. Also, I don't think he is talking about subjective truths like be good.

God involved in the affairs of men, particularly, the salvation of a people related several times. From a Christian POV, the Old Testament relates salvation history. To the point of the OP, God's justice, but as you have pointed out yourself, understanding the context of the culture is important.

I answered with my quip about sola scriptura, which sorry, is vague to a non-Catholic audience. From a Catholic view, sola scriptura is self-interpretation. There does indeed need to be a authoritative role to understand and pass on the meaning conveyed in documents, particularly scripture. But the other often used example is the constitution of the U.S. It is not self-interpretating.

Mormonism comes from Protestant roots, which denies an authoritative need for scripture, and does in fact view scripture as self interpretating. Of course, even someone who is sola scriptura is following an interpretive authority.

Mormons, Evangelicals and atheists, have a literalist view of the Bible that Catholics, mainline Protestants and Jews, do not.

Hope that helps.

Edited to fix multiple spelling errors.

[_LittleNipper]

Maybe you will find this to your liking: http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/09/ ... of-of.html

It's an interesting story, but I fear it's not true.

I've been doing a little search on it and it's pretty fuzzy. I found at least one account that is dated from September 2009. This is troublesome because there are no further accounts and no images.

A find like this would be big news for proponents of the Bible, but it would be bigger news for coin collectors. The earliest known coin currently is from Lydia and was minted around 600 BC. A coin from Joseph's era would need to be minted about 1500 BC.

Egyptians didn't use coins until the time of the Greek occupancy, apparently.

If you know of reports of these coins other than the original story, please post some links.

Have no fear, another is here! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/ ... ct-joseph/

[_LittleNipper]

What literal truth, and how do you determine it? As such I don't think you have answered his question. Also, I don't think he is talking about subjective truths like be good.

God involved in the affairs of men, particularly, the salvation of a people related several times. From a Christian POV, the Old Testament relates salvation history. To the point of the OP, God's justice, but as you have pointed out yourself, understanding the context of the culture is important.

I answered with my quip about sola scriptura, which sorry, is vague to a non-Catholic audience. From a Catholic view, sola scriptura is self-interpretation. There does indeed need to be a authoritative role to understand and pass on the meaning conveyed in documents, particularly scripture. But the other often used example is the constitution of the U.S. It is not self-interpretating.

Mormonism comes from Protestant roots, which denies an authoritative need for scripture, and does in fact view scripture as self interpretating. Of course, even someone who is sola scriptura is following an interpretive authority.

Mormons, Evangelicals and atheists, have a literalist view of the Bible that Catholics, mainline Protestants and Jews, do not.

Hope that helps.

Edited to fix multiple spelling errors.

As a Fundamentalist, I believe that the Holy Spirit brings the interpretation of Scripture to those seeking the face of God. What people believe is correct interpretation of Scripture should not contradict any other part of Scripture.

[_SteelHead]

That the oldest known religious structure Göbekli Tepe which appears to be for an animistic religion which predates the creation myth and the fall of Adam by around 4k years means......... what?

[_Themis]

God involved in the affairs of men, particularly, the salvation of a people related several times. From a Christian POV, the Old Testament relates salvation history. To the point of the OP, God's justice, but as you have pointed out yourself, understanding the context of the culture is important.

I answered with my quip about sola scriptura, which sorry, is vague to a non-Catholic audience. From a Catholic view, sola scriptura is self-interpretation. There does indeed need to be a authoritative role to understand and pass on the meaning conveyed in documents, particularly scripture. But the other often used example is the constitution of the U.S. It is not self-interpretating.

So no method of determining literal truth?

Mormonism comes from Protestant roots, which denies an authoritative need for scripture, and does in fact view scripture as self interpretating. Of course, even someone who is sola scriptura is following an interpretive authority.

Mormons, Evangelicals and atheists, have a literalist view of the Bible that Catholics, mainline Protestants and Jews, do not.

I can't speak for EV's, but some Mormons don't. I don't think atheists do at all. It might be that they talk in literal terms with those who see it that way.

[_ludwigm]

Exodus 12:37
37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

Also just symbolic?

So the exodus was what: 4 guys, 3 gals, 5 oxen, 16 sheep, and a donkey?

Symbolic is not literal. More of a description of the people. Saved by God, as a people, as Noah was (600) in a great numbers (X 1000). 1000 is used throughout the Old Testament to signify a great number. 1000 years = a long time, not literally 1000 years. Etc.

Based on this logic (if one may use this word at all...) Exodus 23:19 - "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk" - means
1. Don't marry a mother and her daughter (at least at the same time...)
2. Make for yourself a very inconvenient kitchen, where milky an meaty vessels even may not be put to the same shelf (don't care the inconvenience, women do it...)

I used to read both interpretation.
There are more - in X-Files...

I am sorry. A certain level of stupidity is necessary; it makes the life comestible . Above that level... yes, above that level we can found Sharia, witch hunt, McCarthyism, Stalinism, and communism called free market capitalism (copyright bcspace, talking about United Order).

No, thank You.

Poets, writers, sculptors, painters, stage managers may use symbols.
God may not; especially in his important messages to the humanity - or to me, if I may mention my littleness...

[_SteelHead]

I don't know that hell as a punishment could be any worse than reading the drek passed as wisdom that proceeds out of Tobin's mouth. Hell on Earth.