Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[Guest]

Here is Snowden's book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vqhwAAAAMAAJ&dq=snowden++the+american+revolution&source=gbs_navlinks_s

I have to say that this one does not have anything like that ring of Book of Mormon familiarity that Hunt's work has.

ETA: In doing some searches, I see a bit more resonance, but not nearly as much.

For example, Hunt's text makes a big deal about "false prophets" who speak smooth things that flatter the people.

Snowden does have deceivers who speak smooth things, but the descriptions are not theologically packed, nor do they combine what seem to me to be several clear Book of Mormon themes:

False prophets

Speaking flattering words

Deceiving the people

Finally, there is very obtrusive divine machinery in Hunt that does not appear in Snowden. In Snowden we see Satan stealing into the heart of Benedict Arnold, but I have not found much else, yet. In Hunt we get, very quickly, a character named Caleb the Strong, who is is warned to stop deceiving the people by an angel, and then is approached by Satan.

[_Shulem]

A Smoking gun for me would be the use of words such as Zarahemla, Nehpi or Lamanite

Why would Joe take that chance? He might get caught and found out because surely others had the book and knew the story. No, it seems in order for Joe to fabricate his new story and adventure he would have to dream up new names and the rest he could just steal from the Bible. That's pretty much how Joe lived. He stole everything he ever had. But Joe did make mistakes and was sloppy at times. The KJV errors in his Book of Mormon story pretty much expose him for the fake he was in just cutting and pasting from the Bible. His 1611 KJV with errors and all in his Book of Mormon are proof he didn't have gold plates and never translated a damn thing. All he did was dictate a story and Oliver helped him write it. Oliver was pretty bright from what I understand. Wasn't he a teacher? He probably had lots of books too.

Paul O

[_AlmaBound]

Prof. Kishkumen,

Do you know if the Dr. Samuel Mitchill who endorses the book is the same Dr. Mitchill who is associated with the "Caractors?"

[_Gadianton]

To the untrained eye, the book clearly does resemble Biblical style. However, a trained scholar in ancient texts would easily be able to pick out obvious differences. Furthermore, there is clearly a major difference in content between Hunt's book and the Book of Mormon.

lol. You mean, like to the trained scholar, the Book of Mormon resembles an ancient text?

This is hand waving, but if there wasn't a discussion going on at the time about the book, why say more? Why draw attention?

This book obviously has not been dealt with yet.

[_Shulem]

If you're looking for stylistic similarities between the Book of Mormon and other pseudo-biblical writings in Joseph Smith's cultural milieu you shouldn't confine yourself to Hunt's book. Take a look also at Richard Snowden's The American Revolution; Written in the Style of Ancient History, as well as the following shorter works: "Paraphrase of the First Book of Samuel, Chap. VIII," New York Journal, Jan. 13, 1791; "First Chapter of Chronicles," Oriental Trumpet, Oct 18, 1798; "Ancient Chronicles, Chap. XX," Windham Herald, Oct. 9, 1800; "The First Book of the Kings," Alexandria Expositor, Feb. 21, 1803; and "The 1st Book of the Chronicles of John," South Carolina Investigator, Oct. 30, 1812. (All of these examples all come from the Eran Shalev article cited in Mormon Interpreter.)

Sure. What makes Hunt's book especially interesting, however, is the fact that he is a New Yorker who wrote this particular book for school children.

And along comes New York school teacher named Oliver Cowdery with some ideas for horny Joe Smith! Those two hatched the whole lie together. A couple of rotten apples -- Joe & Oliver.

Paul O

[_mms]

Prof. Kishkumen,

Do you know if the Dr. Samuel Mitchill who endorses the book is the same Dr. Mitchill who is associated with the "Caractors?"

Seems they are both named Samuel. Hmmmm. What are the implications of this?

[_AlmaBound]

Prof. Kishkumen,

Do you know if the Dr. Samuel Mitchill who endorses the book is the same Dr. Mitchill who is associated with the "Caractors?"

Seems they are both named Samuel. Hmmmm. What are the implications of this?

I'm not sure. Maybe nothing at all. Just noticed it.

[_Shulem]

If you're looking for stylistic similarities between the Book of Mormon and other pseudo-biblical writings in Joseph Smith's cultural milieu you shouldn't confine yourself to Hunt's book. Take a look also at Richard Snowden's The American Revolution; Written in the Style of Ancient History, as well as the following shorter works: "Paraphrase of the First Book of Samuel, Chap. VIII," New York Journal, Jan. 13, 1791; "First Chapter of Chronicles," Oriental Trumpet, Oct 18, 1798; "Ancient Chronicles, Chap. XX," Windham Herald, Oct. 9, 1800; "The First Book of the Kings," Alexandria Expositor, Feb. 21, 1803; and "The 1st Book of the Chronicles of John," South Carolina Investigator, Oct. 30, 1812. (All of these examples all come from the Eran Shalev article cited in Mormon Interpreter.)

I wonder if Oliver Cowdery was well read in any of those works? He no doubt liked to read and write. He was a teacher in New York so he must have been qualified to some degree. I'll bet he had all kinds of ideas for Joseph Smith and some of them may very well be in the publications you mention. Have you read those books or are you just citing them to make us think you're in the know?

Paul O

[_Kishkumen]

To the untrained eye, the book clearly does resemble Biblical style. However, a trained scholar in ancient texts would easily be able to pick out obvious differences. Furthermore, there is clearly a major difference in content between Hunt's book and the Book of Mormon.

lol. You mean, like to the trained scholar, the Book of Mormon resembles an ancient text?

This is hand waving, but if there wasn't a discussion going on at the time about the book, why say more? Why draw attention?

This book obviously has not been dealt with yet.

Indeed.

Look, yes, of course, since Hunt's book explicitly deals with recent history and makes no attempts at deceiving anyone, there is no way anyone would mistake it for an ancient text.

Duh.

The Book of Mormon, on the other hand, purports to be an ancient text, and is set the deep past.

In my mind, there is little question that the Book of Mormon is not an ancient text, and there has been little question since my last couple of years at BYU.

But, here's the thing, I don't view this as a reason to dismiss the Book of Mormon as uninspired or a mere work of fiction. I am not dismissing the book as not being scripture.

What I am saying is "here, at last, is something that I would feel comfortable viewing as a strong influence on Joseph Smith's composition of the Book of Mormon."

These are important distinctions. Of course, each person has her or his own agenda, but mine is to understand how the book came to be, and to discover what in its environment contributed to its emergence.

[_Shulem]

For example, Hunt's text makes a big deal about "false prophets" who speak smooth things that flatter the people.

Snowden does have deceivers who speak smooth things, but the descriptions are not theologically packed, nor do they combine what seem to me to be several clear Book of Mormon themes:

False prophets

Speaking flattering words

Deceiving the people

I caught that too and it struck me. I suspect the author of the Book of Mormon got it from this very source and was a lasting impression that stuck in his mind. It became a part of the vocabulary and it stuck. Yes, the Book of Mormon veil is lifting and its nakedness is being exposed!

Isn't it wonderful! President Bensen must be rolling in his grave.

Paul O