Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Gadianton]

Of all the books with similarities to the Book of Mormon, this is the most impressive, but I think the apologist reaction will be much like Nevo's.

Indeed, but that's because nothing has been published. Right now we're in the "move along, nothing to see here folks" phase. "Add another Book of Mormon source to the list," they will yawn. But if this takes off and theories are published with specifics, then they will go into damage control mode and have Greg Smith respond with a 275 page essay.

[_suniluni2]

It's late so I don't have time to examine the link tonight, but the culled quotes in this thread are so strikingly similar to Book of Mormon style that I'm calling BS on this. crap, I just checked the link and it looks legit. What are you evil anti-mormons trying to pull? I will check this out tomorrow.

[_Darth J]

]

Now it came to pass, in the one thousand eight hundred and twelfth year of the christian era, and in the thirty and sixth year after the people of the provinces of Columbia had declared themselves a free and independent nation;

Brant Gardner has informed us that "it came to pass" is evidence of the Book of Mormon's ancient Mesoamerican origins. He even refers to Maya glyphs that parallel the "it came to pass" phrasing of the Book of Mormon.

http://ldsmag.com/ldsmag/ancients/040707passprint.html

Therefore, the logical conclusion is that The History of the Late War between the United States and Great Britain is a translation of an ancient Mesoamerican document.

[_Darth J]

Say, guys, not to change the subject, but I need to tell you all something.

I have been writing a story about a war that happens between different planets, but instead of happening a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, it happens in the future in the Milky Way. And also I have some people who fight with swords and can do space magic, but I refer to them as the Patriots, not the Jedi. So it is totally different.

I also have a tendency in this story to use some phrases like "May the Force be with you," "I have a bad feeling about this," "You don't know the power of the dark side," and "The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is." Also, I caught myself invariably referring to robots as "droids."

So what I need from you guys is as many people as possible to agree that my story was in no way influenced by Star Wars. Thanks in advance to everyone who is willing to vouch for me.

[_Kevin Graham]

Brant Gardner has informed us that "it came to pass" is evidence of the Book of Mormon's ancient Mesoamerican origins. He even refers to Maya glyphs that parallel the "it came to pass" phrasing of the Book of Mormon.

I was thinking that exact same thing. In fact I remember attending a symposium of sorts at a Stake Center back in 1997 and I believe it was Sorenson who presented it. He did a one hour presentation on an ancient Mayan glyph which when translated, means "and so it happened that it happened." Which he liberally translated to mean "and it came to pass." All of us were stunned, and of course felt the spirit testify to this amazing evidence for the divine origin of the Book of Mormon.

And now this...

You know, Mormon apologists love to argue that we cannot say anything definitive about evidence appearing to be against the Book of Mormon, because as time passes we discover new things. "This is the way of scholarship... what's wrong with you anti-Mormons, do you hate scholarship"? That's pretty much what the FAIRites loved to say when I was on board with them.

Well, this is a perfect example of that truism backfiring in their face. As time passes more and more of their favorite apologetic theories get shot out of the water.

Now all we need is a contemporary example of the "if-and" construction to make the comedy complete.

[_Spanner]

- was Ether an ancient Jewish - who taught and kept "Law of Moses", an expression appearing 33 times in Book of Mormon
or
- was he a 19th century American - who knew that expression, and nothing behind the mere expression

Theoretically, Ether lived before the Law of Moses was given to the Hebrews, so swine were not unclean then (in Genesis, they were told that if it moves, you can eat it). Although one wonders why the Law of Moses wasn't given to the Jaredites at the same time it was given to the Hebrews.

There is this too:

D&C 89:16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

I suspect all the various food quotes borrow from Genesis 1.

[_Mary]

The attitude to women in the Hunt book is fascinating!

The theme of tender hearted women, honoured for their beauty and innocence along with their little ones is very reminiscent of Book of Mormon narratives particularly Jacob 2, Mosiah 19,

Page 81

38 Instead of protecting the tender women, the fairest work of God, the life of the world; behold! What hast thou done?
39 See! The shrieking matron cast herself into the waters that she may escape thy brutal violence: but all in vain; her garments are torn from her; she becomes a prey to they savage lust.
40 Not she alone, but her daughter, and her fair sisters, have fallen into the unhallowed hands, and been defiled!
41 Oh, Britain! The voice of violated chastity riseth up against thee; the mark of the beast is indelibly printed in thy forehead:

P61
15 And the women and the children looked for their homes, but found them not; and they sat down in sorrow, for the haughty conquerors laughed at their sufferings.

P77
4 And the old men, the little children, and the women, yea, the fair daughters of Columbia, were compelled to fly from the wickedness of the barbarians.

P129

28 Seven hundred and fifty of the savage warriors were found slain in battle; and two hundred two score and ten women and children became captives to the army of Columbia.

Mosiah 19:13

13 And it came to pass that those who tarried with their wives and their children caused that their fair daughters should stand forth and plead with the Lamanites that they would not slay them.

14 And it came to pass that the Lamanites had compassion on them, for they were charmed with the beauty of their women.

15 Therefore the Lamanites did spare their lives, and took them captives and carried them back to the land of Nephi, and granted unto them that they might possess the land, under the conditions that they would deliver up king Noah into the hands of the Lamanites, and deliver up their property, even aone half of all they possessed, one half of their gold, and their silver, and all their precious things, and thus they should pay tribute to the king of the Lamanites from year to year.

Jacob 2

7 And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God;

32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.

34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

[_Spanner]

The attitude to women in the Hunt book is fascinating!

The theme of tender hearted women, honoured for their beauty and innocence along with their little ones is very reminiscent of Book of Mormon narratives particularly Jacob 2, Mosiah 19,

Page 81

38 Instead of protecting the tender women, the fairest work of God, the life of the world; behold! What hast thou done?
39 See! The shrieking matron cast herself into the waters that she may escape thy brutal violence: but all in vain; her garments are torn from her; she becomes a prey to they savage lust.
40 Not she alone, but her daughter, and her fair sisters, have fallen into the unhallowed hands, and been defiled!
41 Oh, Britain! The voice of violated chastity riseth up against thee; the mark of the beast is indelibly printed in thy forehead:

P61
15 And the women and the children looked for their homes, but found them not; and they sat down in sorrow, for the haughty conquerors laughed at their sufferings.

P77
4 And the old men, the little children, and the women, yea, the fair daughters of Columbia, were compelled to fly from the wickedness of the barbarians.

P129

28 Seven hundred and fifty of the savage warriors were found slain in battle; and two hundred two score and ten women and children became captives to the army of Columbia.

Mosiah 19:13

13 And it came to pass that those who tarried with their wives and their children caused that their fair daughters should stand forth and plead with the Lamanites that they would not slay them.

14 And it came to pass that the Lamanites had compassion on them, for they were charmed with the beauty of their women.

15 Therefore the Lamanites did spare their lives, and took them captives and carried them back to the land of Nephi, and granted unto them that they might possess the land, under the conditions that they would deliver up king Noah into the hands of the Lamanites, and deliver up their property, even aone half of all they possessed, one half of their gold, and their silver, and all their precious things, and thus they should pay tribute to the king of the Lamanites from year to year.

Jacob 2

7 And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God;

32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.

34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

Classic 19th Century romantic sentiments!

Now we need to find some Chiasmus in Late War.

[_Kishkumen]

I just saw a discussion of this on a Facebook friend's wall. It looks like the immediate Mormontologist response to it is to argue that the source book is most likely a Mark Hofmann forgery because it was first microfiched in 1985, the same year many Hofmann forgeries were microfiched buy libraries. I am not making this up. That's the "faithful" argument: Mark Hofmann created forgeries that people thought had uncanny resemblances to the Book of Mormon, so this book with uncanny references is most likely a forgery.

Hofmann evidently forged multiple printings of the book. I have seen three thus far.

[_Kishkumen]

Also, isn't it interesting that on Facebook we have apologists arguing that this is a Hofmann forgery?

That should tell you something.

In other words, these apologists think it looks too good. It looks too much like the Book of Mormon not to be a fake designed to discredit the Book of Mormon somehow.

What next? Will we hear that Satan inspired Gilbert Hunt to write in a style like the Book of Mormon in order to challenge the faith of the believers?

Well, it is the kind of argument that apologists in antiquity used to defend Christianity.