Brant Gardner has informed us that "it came to pass" is evidence of the Book of Mormon's ancient Mesoamerican origins. He even refers to Maya glyphs that parallel the "it came to pass" phrasing of the Book of Mormon.
I was thinking that exact same thing. In fact I remember attending a symposium of sorts at a Stake Center back in 1997 and I believe it was Sorenson who presented it. He did a one hour presentation on an ancient Mayan glyph which when translated, means "and so it happened that it happened." Which he liberally translated to mean "and it came to pass." All of us were stunned, and of course felt the spirit testify to this amazing evidence for the divine origin of the Book of Mormon.
And now this...
You know, Mormon apologists love to argue that we cannot say anything definitive about evidence appearing to be against the Book of Mormon, because as time passes we discover new things. "This is the way of scholarship... what's wrong with you anti-Mormons, do you hate scholarship"? That's pretty much what the FAIRites loved to say when I was on board with them.
Well, this is a perfect example of that truism backfiring in their face. As time passes more and more of their favorite apologetic theories get shot out of the water.
Now all we need is a contemporary example of the "if-and" construction to make the comedy complete.
Kevin, the church feeds off the idea of having a good feeling being from the Spirit in order to validate the truthfulness of the church. Hell, you could have a good feeling chewing doublemint gum like in those old commercials. And remember how Spencer W. Kimball and his buddies must have been feeling the Spirit when they spent all that church money on forged documents from brother Hoffman, a righteous priesthood brother?
Yes, it seems at the passage of time (it came to pass) that more information and understanding comes to light to further prove just how fake the Book of Mormon really is. The Book of Mormon is no more real than the errors of the KJV contained in its covers that Joe Smith stole or the missing king's name in Facsimile No. 3. I still believe that we need to hold the Facsimile No. 3 gun up to the heads of the apologists and milk it for all we can. It's the golden goose and the one they hate the most!
Wow, this is amazing. It is clear that "The Late War..." heavily influenced Joseph Smith as he composed the Book of Mormon. Joseph didn't copy Late War word for word. Instead, Joseph was heavily influenced by it so that many ideas and overall phraseology from the Late War bleed through into the Book of Mormon.
Of the works that influenced Joseph Smith's creation of the Book of Mormon, how would you rank them in order of importance? Here is my list.
1. KJV Bible 2. The Late War 3. Antiquities of Freemasonry 4. View of the Hebrews
Mary wrote:The attitude to women in the Hunt book is fascinating!
The theme of tender hearted women, honoured for their beauty and innocence along with their little ones is very reminiscent of Book of Mormon narratives particularly Jacob 2, Mosiah 19,
It's strong evidence to show that once again, horny Joe was caught with his pants down. Like harmony has said in the past, Joe had a hard time keeping his pants up. It was his biggest weakness checking out the chicks and then wanting to nail each and every one of them even if they were already married.
Kishkumen wrote:Also, isn't it interesting that on Facebook we have apologists arguing that this is a Hofmann forgery?
That should tell you something.
In other words, these apologists think it looks too good. It looks too much like the Book of Mormon not to be a fake designed to discredit the Book of Mormon somehow.
What next? Will we hear that Satan inspired Gilbert Hunt to write in a style like the Book of Mormon in order to challenge the faith of the believers?
Well, it is the kind of argument that apologists in antiquity used to defend Christianity.
Surely the book is striking fear into their hearts. It looks too good and they know it. They must be really worried. There will likely be a mad scramble and a lot of gossiping behind the scenes in Mormon apologia circles. And around and around they go! The testimony of the Book of Mormon towards this book will pound away at their hearts and with just a little luck many testimonies will be lost. Isn't it wonderful? What a glorious find!
After reading through some of the latest articles on the Harris visit to Anthon and Mitchill, I have wondered if the lost 116 pages was just a cover story to start the Book of Mormon over taking a new approach with information gleaned from Mitchill?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Wow, Kish! This is why I love this board -- great stuff. Makes me forget all about the Liz debacle. This history book is quite stunning -- I'm not ready to declare it a 'silver bullet' just yet, but the similarities between it and the Book of Mormon cannot be ignored.
Yes, this a day to be long remembered. The true beginning of pulling the pants of the Book of Mormon and exposing its nakedness before all the world. Surely the Book of Mormon is a shameful book -- filled with plagiarism, anachronisms, errors, false doctrines, and fairy tales.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is losing the keystone of their religion and its happening right in front of our eyes.
Fence Sitter wrote:After reading through some of the latest articles on the Harris visit to Anthon and Mitchill, I have wondered if the lost 116 pages was just a cover story to start the Book of Mormon over taking a new approach with information gleaned from Mitchill?
Nevo wrote:If you're looking for stylistic similarities between the Book of Mormon and other pseudo-biblical writings in Joseph Smith's cultural milieu you shouldn't confine yourself to Hunt's book. Take a look also at Richard Snowden's The American Revolution; Written in the Style of Ancient History [...]
here's an interesting article about Snowden's book that appeared in the Oct 1, 1903 issue of the New York Sun (my bolding):
FREAK BOOKS ABOUT OLD TIMES. Startling Information About the Period of the War for Independence. From the Washington Post. If one had the time it would be well worth the trouble to spend a month at the Library of Congress, looking over what the librarians call "freak books." Now and then, in all countries and climates, some one is seized with a desire to write a book in some manner other than the way usually followed, and such productions are oftentimes grotesque and ridiculous. This is not only the case at present, but it has always been so, and nearly every age can show the work of some person who had nothing better to do than to busy himself with the production of a work that was chiefly remarkable for its utterly nonsensical and outlandish character. Of these, one of the most remarkable Is a book entitled "The American Revolution," written in "Scriptural or ancient historical style, by Richard Snowden, Baltimore. Printed by W. Pechin, 10 Second street." No date is given, nor is there any preface or foreword as to who or what the author was but it is evident from the name of the publisher and several other things that it appeared some time about the year 1798. The book is just what its title announces, a very blundering and poor attempt at writing a history of the Revolution in the English of the Stuart period, which ignorant people imagine was the spoken tongue of Moses, St. Paul and all the other Bible characters. In fact, the work is somewhat on the style of the Mormon Bible, that is to say, written in nineteenth century English with "And it came to pass," or an "exceeding sore" ladelled in here and there to give it a somewhat Biblical twang. [...] How any one could have the patience to wade through this mess of nonsense it would be hard to imagine, but doubtless in those days when everything in America turned on Bible and religion, this remarkable book was thumbed over and eagerly read as a very clever and witty effusion.
Bennett's article on Mitchill and Harris shows that Mitchill was, by 1816, promulgating a theory about climactic, ancient battles in New York that brought about the destruction of a great people. That is very interesting.
As for the connection between Harris and Mitchill, it would seem that another individual, perhaps Luther Bradish of Albany, NY, referred Harris to him, not that Joseph Smith sent him directly to Mitchill. Mitchill then referred Harris to Anthon.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist