Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Darth J]

Another evidence of the Book of Mormon's ancient Hebraic origins is its use of the cognate accusative, which a person in Joseph Smith's time and place was unlikely to have known about.

For example, here is a thread on Mormon Dungeons & Dragons on this topic.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/444 ... in-hebrew/

Here is an observation from Avatar4321 about these little details like the cognate accusative showing up in the ancient Nephite record:

I've once asked, how many "coincidences" does the Book of Mormon have to have before it's looked at seriously? I mean seriously, how many things could Joseph have guessed accurately? And its not the big things that stand out. it's the little things. The things that there is no way he could possibly have understood. The things that make the Book of Mormon more and more plausible.

Note also this comment from Maklelan:

It's not necessarily completely unique to Hebrew, but it is most common on Semitic languages, and it was not common to English literature in the 19th century and was certainly absent from Joseph Smith's literary vocabulary.

So what does the cognate accusative look like? Like this:

Ch. 1, pp. 10-11

13. Now the men of Columbia were not like unto the men of Britain; for their backs were not hardened unto the whip, as were the servants of the king; therefore they murmured, and their murmurings have been heard.

The presence of hebraisms does not prove the Book of Mormon is an ancient record, but they suggest that the translation was (at times, at least) relatively 'tight,' and require the critic to explain where Joseph Smith would have picked up such expressions in rural New York of the 1820s. http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon ... /Hebraisms

[_Darth J]

http://www.bmaf.org/node/198

If Joseph had authored the Book of Mormon rather than translated it, he naturally would have used tornado rather than whirlwind as a reflection of his “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or his “language and vernacular.” He certainly would have had no way of knowing that whirlwind was the legitimate choice as a reflection of Maya languages from Mesoamerica....

Joseph’s choice of whirlwind rather than tornado went beyond his upstate New York “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or “language and vernacular.”

Ch. IX, pp. 33

1. NOW the movements of the enemy were as the motion of a whirlwind, which passeth from the north to the south, and from the east to the west.

[_Runtu]

Another evidence of the Book of Mormon's ancient Hebraic origins is its use of the cognate accusative, which a person in Joseph Smith's time and place was unlikely to have known about.

For example, here is a thread on Mormon Dungeons & Dragons on this topic.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/444 ... in-hebrew/

Now that is an old thread, old enough that I posted in it, pre-banning.

[Guest]

We already know he had a specific King James version of the Bible in front of him and he transferred portions of it into the Book of Mormon, mistakes and all.

We know this? I don't remember an account of him translating the Book of Mormon with the Bible in front of him. And the reason the Bible verses are in the Book of Mormon is not for our benefit. We have the Bible. It was for the Lehites.

I don't get this argument. The anachronistic Bible verses in the Book of Mormon were put in for the Lehites? Why? and how would Mormon or Moroni, or whoever, know to include Bible verses from the 17th century? Did God tell them what those anachronisms would be? And why would the Lehites benefit from the anachronisms?

[_Darth J]

As a side note:

Ch. VIII, pp. 30

3. And the name of the ship was called, in the language of the French, Guerriere, which signifieth a warrior, and Dacres was the captain thereof.

Abraham 1:14

That you may have an understanding of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning, which manner of figures is called by the Chaldeans Rahleenos, which signifies hieroglyphics.

Abraham 1:23

The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

Abraham 3:13

And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

[Guest]

http://www.bmaf.org/node/198

If Joseph had authored the Book of Mormon rather than translated it, he naturally would have used tornado rather than whirlwind as a reflection of his “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or his “language and vernacular.” He certainly would have had no way of knowing that whirlwind was the legitimate choice as a reflection of Maya languages from Mesoamerica....

Joseph’s choice of whirlwind rather than tornado went beyond his upstate New York “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or “language and vernacular.”

Ch. IX, pp. 33

1. NOW the movements of the enemy were as the motion of a whirlwind, which passeth from the north to the south, and from the east to the west.

Great finds, Darth.

Apologetic arguments are taking a lot of hits over this. Some of their best arguments, that I am sure they considered as strong, seem to be falling victim.

Hope whoever ends up writing the paper uses proper attribution and gives you due acknowledgement and credit for your fine work here.

[_Res Ipsa]

So, it looks like he is saying that they have chosen clusters of four words (4grams) and compared them with a random sampling of 5000 books from the period of 1500 to 1830 other than the Book of Mormon. The results showed that there were 200 identical 4grams in the Book of Mormon and Hunt.

I would like to see this unpacked a little more. The jump from the discussion of how often a 4gram appears in the random sample set to the discussion of the overlap between Hunt and the Book of Mormon is a little confusing. It appears like he is saying that the highest instance you get of any 4gram in the entire random sample is 4 other works. Any 4gram only appears in a maximum of four of the works in the sample. So, the fact that the Book of Mormon and Hunt have an overlap of 200 4grams is astounding, given the likelihood of a random overlap.

Am I reading this correctly?

It would be interesting to check the overlaps between the Book of Mormon and other works written in a biblical style that we don't believe Smith had access to.

[_Runtu]

It would be interesting to check the overlaps between the Book of Mormon and other works written in a biblical style that we don't believe Smith had access to.

That would be fairly easy, as you could simply use books published after 1830, assuming that there are more such books (and I'd bet there are).

[Guest]

http://www.bmaf.org/node/198

If Joseph had authored the Book of Mormon rather than translated it, he naturally would have used tornado rather than whirlwind as a reflection of his “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or his “language and vernacular.” He certainly would have had no way of knowing that whirlwind was the legitimate choice as a reflection of Maya languages from Mesoamerica....

Joseph’s choice of whirlwind rather than tornado went beyond his upstate New York “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or “language and vernacular.”

Ch. IX, pp. 33

1. NOW the movements of the enemy were as the motion of a whirlwind, which passeth from the north to the south, and from the east to the west.

Good catch, Professor J.

I am awed and humbled by the valuable contributions of my Cassius colleagues. I hope Johnson gives you a nod in his forthcoming publication.

[_Kishkumen]

It would be interesting to check the overlaps between the Book of Mormon and other works written in a biblical style that we don't believe Smith had access to.

Well, it wouldn't matter anyhow, since the young Joseph Smith was an illiterate rube who had no access to books and only ever read the Bible.

Amirite?